New UA Destinations coming soon Rumors
Apr 19, 2018, 3:18 pm
#106
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 518
SFO-SZX please! It is a pain to do land/sea transfer to HKG.
Apr 19, 2018, 3:25 pm
#107
Join Date: May 2016
Location: In btw SJC & SFO
Programs: Marriott Titanium & LTP, Hilton Diamond (Aspire card), Hyatt Globalist, UA Gold (almost free agent)
Posts: 510
Very spot on! Virtually I travel seven times to BKK each year and before this year I have done it most through NH codeshare except award ticket on excellent BR. While I like both HND/NRT airports which are very efficient and clean, I really dislike NH seat and even their home base business lounges are inferiors to United Club in NRT IMHO, it’s really a torture in NH Y regional seat and if your are not lucky its J seat is angel flat. From this August on I will try as much as to avoid NH codeshare by going through HKG via CX/HX despite some PQD/PQM loss. Going forward my strategy is booking one way SFO-TYO W fare (SFO-HKG is tough to clear) then TYO-BKK NH Y and return flight Z/P fare via HKG. I really hope SFO-BKK is in the works.
It's still a major market (I personally am there 2-4 times per year), and while everything you say is true, its location and the relationship UA has with its *A partners makes it _intensely_ annoying to get to. We can just go ahead and write off PEK and PVG -- if you willingly transit there, you deserve what you get.
TPE works badly - the timing of the UA SFO-TPE flight means that there is only a single BR flight that will still get you to BKK same-day, and UA doesn't like selling BR segments. The times I've done this route, I've had to be on separate tickets, and got screwed once by a misconnect.
SIN requires an overnight. I've never done ICN, but equally, I have never once (to my recollection) been presented with that as an available connection point when searching for flights -- probably timing issues, or similar UA+OZ issues like TPE. The most convenient connection point is one you don't mention - NRT. But unless you're on paid Business, it sucks for UA fliers, because NRT-BKK is not an easy upgrade, and requires extra instruments to use anyhow, UA won't sell NH PE, and is still a pretty long segment to be packed in NH Y.
Aside from KUL, which is an easy hop based on flight times from HKG or SIN, I can think of no other major Asian capital market that has so much traffic, and yet is so inconvenient to get to from the USA.
TPE works badly - the timing of the UA SFO-TPE flight means that there is only a single BR flight that will still get you to BKK same-day, and UA doesn't like selling BR segments. The times I've done this route, I've had to be on separate tickets, and got screwed once by a misconnect.
SIN requires an overnight. I've never done ICN, but equally, I have never once (to my recollection) been presented with that as an available connection point when searching for flights -- probably timing issues, or similar UA+OZ issues like TPE. The most convenient connection point is one you don't mention - NRT. But unless you're on paid Business, it sucks for UA fliers, because NRT-BKK is not an easy upgrade, and requires extra instruments to use anyhow, UA won't sell NH PE, and is still a pretty long segment to be packed in NH Y.
Aside from KUL, which is an easy hop based on flight times from HKG or SIN, I can think of no other major Asian capital market that has so much traffic, and yet is so inconvenient to get to from the USA.
Apr 19, 2018, 3:26 pm
#108
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Northern California
Programs: UA-Plat, UA-MM, Hertz PC, HH, APEC ABTC
Posts: 235
If they open SFO/BKK (fingers crossed), I'll definitely use that as well. But it will be in place of the SFO/SIN or SFO/HKG routes. So not necessarily a big win for UA.
Apr 19, 2018, 3:29 pm
#109
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 451
"United's decision to fly from San Francisco to Tel Aviv came about, the carrier said today, as a result of thousands of customers who pushed for the route through the SFOTLV.org petition initiative."
There are more articles.
Apr 19, 2018, 5:14 pm
#110
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
2. And... it's not an angled flat seat, it's a barcalounger... and unquestionably (at least for me), the most uncomfortable seat in the sky..... any airline..... J or Y.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 19, 2018 at 10:39 pm Reason: repaired quote
Apr 19, 2018, 6:16 pm
#111
Join Date: May 2016
Location: In btw SJC & SFO
Programs: Marriott Titanium & LTP, Hilton Diamond (Aspire card), Hyatt Globalist, UA Gold (almost free agent)
Posts: 510
Actually I meant one time last Thanksgiving my BKK-NRT red eye flight, NH changed equipment from lie flat to barcalounger which made me very upset and uncomfortable. They put a sign 'We are very sorry....' on check in desk. While two months later I got compensated from TG BKK-NRT red eye flight, due to equipment change I scored a real lie flat new A350 seat from original old A330 angel seat. Break even, HAHA! Knowing TG, I hope my late May BKK-NRT TG640 will have the same change.
1. It has nothing to do with luck. NH aircraft assignment is not random. If you book on the 6:30pm out of NRT, you WILL get the torture seat in J. If you book on any of the 3 other regular NH daily flights from Tokyo to BKK, you will get the staggered full flat J seat, which is quite decent.
Last edited by tomwhom; Apr 19, 2018 at 6:27 pm
Apr 19, 2018, 7:20 pm
#112
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 352
I would challenge you to go ahead and try to book that (at those prices, or anything even remotely close) on the same PNR. If you care about UA PQDs, I would challenge you further to not just book it, but do so on a 016 ticket.
And while those connection times do seem quite reasonable on their surface, UA 871's rather dismal performance history makes it a little scarier than I like in my life...
EDIT: Per restlessinRNO's post below, I forgot that the summer and winter schedules were different. My last 3 flights to BKK have been on the winter schedule, when that connection time is much shorter!
And while those connection times do seem quite reasonable on their surface, UA 871's rather dismal performance history makes it a little scarier than I like in my life...
EDIT: Per restlessinRNO's post below, I forgot that the summer and winter schedules were different. My last 3 flights to BKK have been on the winter schedule, when that connection time is much shorter!
In a hypothetical UA metal SFO-BKK flight, PQD would be similar to SFO-TPE and PQM would be 7933 (direct SFO-BKK) vs SFO-TPE-BKK 7242 (6469 + .5 * 1547).
BR's change/refund policy are incredibly customer-friendly, even on the lower fare classes. Typically 1000 or 2000 TWD for cancel/change ($34-$68 USD). Given how quickly one can transit TPE and the reasonable change fees, UA 871/872 combined with BR is a great option for getting to BKK or other points in SEA.
Last edited by east_west; Apr 19, 2018 at 8:40 pm
Apr 19, 2018, 8:21 pm
#113
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Portland OR
Programs: United 1K 1MM, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton HHonors Gold
Posts: 560
1. It has nothing to do with luck. NH aircraft assignment is not random. If you book on the 6:30pm out of NRT, you WILL get the torture seat in J. If you book on any of the 3 other regular NH daily flights from Tokyo to BKK, you will get the staggered full flat J seat, which is quite decent.
2. And... it's not an angled flat seat, it's a barcalounger... and unquestionably (at least for me), the most uncomfortable seat in the sky..... any airline..... J or Y.
2. And... it's not an angled flat seat, it's a barcalounger... and unquestionably (at least for me), the most uncomfortable seat in the sky..... any airline..... J or Y.
I flew out on the 5pm 789 and it was lie flat. Very nice but not as good as UA’s 77W Polaris. Returning was NH’s 788 barcalounger, and much much worse than UA’s old barcaloungers.
Though Id love to see SFO-BKK back I think there are better options for UA. SFO-India and preferably BLR would be my choice.
Apr 19, 2018, 9:58 pm
#114
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,470
You can't book these on the same PNR or on 016, but there is effectively no need other than for UA's PQD. If you go BR J/PE you do get 100% UA PQM, but only 50% on discount economy.
In a hypothetical UA metal SFO-BKK flight, PQD would be similar to SFO-TPE and PQM would be 7933 (direct SFO-BKK) vs SFO-TPE-BKK 7242 (6469 + .5 * 1547).
BR's change/refund policy are incredibly customer-friendly, even on the lower fare classes. Typically 1000 or 2000 TWD for cancel/change ($34-$68 USD). Given how quickly one can transit TPE and the reasonable change fees, UA 871/872 combined with BR is a great option for getting to BKK or other points in SEA.
In a hypothetical UA metal SFO-BKK flight, PQD would be similar to SFO-TPE and PQM would be 7933 (direct SFO-BKK) vs SFO-TPE-BKK 7242 (6469 + .5 * 1547).
BR's change/refund policy are incredibly customer-friendly, even on the lower fare classes. Typically 1000 or 2000 TWD for cancel/change ($34-$68 USD). Given how quickly one can transit TPE and the reasonable change fees, UA 871/872 combined with BR is a great option for getting to BKK or other points in SEA.
Apr 19, 2018, 10:02 pm
#115
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
the story I have heard about SFO-TLV on UA is as follows: There was a group of Israeli techies that put together a petition that they gave to all the airlines to start an SFO-TLV route. United said to the group: this isn't even in our top 10 of city pairs, but given the strength of the petition, let's try it out with a 787 3 days a week. Within a month or so of opening the route they had such strong demand that they went daily with the 787. After about 18 months they announced they were up-gauging to the 777-300 daily. Clearly the experts at United had gotten it wrong initially but are making up for it now.
Personally, I think IAD-TLV would be a good flight too - lots of connections to the southeast and plenty of people who want to avoid EWR, not to mention all the government traffic that would result.
Personally, I think IAD-TLV would be a good flight too - lots of connections to the southeast and plenty of people who want to avoid EWR, not to mention all the government traffic that would result.
The route is not driven by Y demand (UA is currently running it as a 788 in the winter season) but by corporate J traffic.
p.s. and I'll second everyone who has said that a new ULR flight will only fly if there is a combo of corporate J and some full fare traffic to fill the front of the plane. SIN (media, finance, investment, corporate office, research, advertising) has it in spades. All of the asian destinations being discussed (BKK, KUL, SGN etc) just don't have the kinds of industries that will fill the front of the plane day in and day out. Huge market, but not in J. BKK probably comes closest, but one only needs look at the new TG A359 (the plane that they will fly to the USA, and TG is using to LHR) where TG has gone with 32 J and 289 Y, which I think that says a lot about the market demands. The other concern is that if UA jumped into the market, TG would likely follow, undercutting UA's ability to pull in the high value J traffic. lets be serious here, J on the new TG A359 or coJ on the 789 on UA. Not a contest.
Last edited by spin88; Apr 19, 2018 at 10:17 pm
Apr 20, 2018, 1:30 am
#116
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
As I have said, I think the bigger issue is whether UA can compete long term with TG, VN, etc. UA has much higher labor costs. Hard and soft product are not as good. And they don't have quite the right aircraft for the route.
Apr 20, 2018, 5:47 am
#117
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,454
Again... a/c is not a limiting factor, SFOBKK is about a 750nm shorter sector than UA’s current longest LAXSIN, which is significant.
That tells me the reasons for the lack of a nonstop route are commercial rather than an equipment limitation; namely, that UA doesn’t think the market would support a meaningful premium
over the current JV one-stop. Time will tell.
That tells me the reasons for the lack of a nonstop route are commercial rather than an equipment limitation; namely, that UA doesn’t think the market would support a meaningful premium
over the current JV one-stop. Time will tell.
Apr 20, 2018, 7:20 am
#118
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: AA LT PLT (3.6+ MM), UA 1K LT Gold, Hilton LT Diamond, Bonvoy Gold.
Posts: 1,662
Apr 20, 2018, 8:57 am
#119
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: United Plat
Posts: 501
I believe United cancelling Xian was a function of China launching the high-speed rail line between Chengdu and Xian (only 3 hours 15 minutes). I think they've been steadily adding capacity to APAC. Also remember, UA knows how to handle lower volume APAC routes. Look at SFO-TPE. SFO-BKK would be a fantastic route -- especially with TG's extensive route network from BKK. Finally, don't underestimate how many folks take the SFO-SIN flight as a connection to India. All those folks would now use SFO-BKK as it avoids overshooting India by a few hours. TG is quite good to India so will be a powerful draw...
Apr 20, 2018, 10:18 am
#120
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TPE
Programs: UA Gold, HA Premier, Hertz #1 Gold PC, SBUX Gold
Posts: 603
Yes but per my post above, this logic is faulty given the continued success for UA on SFO-SIN despite the presence and competition from SQ which most would argue has a better product than UA.