Gate Agent Denied Boarding for NonRev Women Wearing Leggings
Mar 27, 2017, 2:33 pm
#226
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CNN just issued an opinion piece on its website that IMHO seems to try and explain the realities of pass travel to the public...
http://cnn.it/2mJOflr
http://cnn.it/2mJOflr
Mar 27, 2017, 2:34 pm
#227
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Doesn't this thread almost perfectly demark the typical rift on the FT boards? And most other s/m boards.
There are those who maintain that rules are in place and therefore a person or organization adhering to those rules - even rigidly, even when an exception makes the most sense - are never wrong for doing just that. And that those who "demand" exceptions are basically self-centered. (In this way of thinking, a request is tantamount to a demand because it forces the request to refused).
And there are those who feel that perception often trumps reality (pardon me for dancing near the PR pun border) and that organizations which insist on a zero-tolerance adherence to their rules makes them look just like the worst school boards in the country. The ones that expel 6 year olds for making "finger guns" or kissing a little girl on the cheek, not due to the actions themselves , but simply because they have violence and harassment rules in place.
Finally, it appears everyone agrees that if you can't dance the line on social media you're probably doing more harm than good engaging in that arena. Limit s/m to actual customer service problems. Use DM more and Tweet less.
There are those who maintain that rules are in place and therefore a person or organization adhering to those rules - even rigidly, even when an exception makes the most sense - are never wrong for doing just that. And that those who "demand" exceptions are basically self-centered. (In this way of thinking, a request is tantamount to a demand because it forces the request to refused).
And there are those who feel that perception often trumps reality (pardon me for dancing near the PR pun border) and that organizations which insist on a zero-tolerance adherence to their rules makes them look just like the worst school boards in the country. The ones that expel 6 year olds for making "finger guns" or kissing a little girl on the cheek, not due to the actions themselves , but simply because they have violence and harassment rules in place.
Finally, it appears everyone agrees that if you can't dance the line on social media you're probably doing more harm than good engaging in that arena. Limit s/m to actual customer service problems. Use DM more and Tweet less.
Mar 27, 2017, 2:36 pm
#228
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I'm virtually certain that 0% of the mainstream press will get this right.
I think it's not particularly a gender discrimination thing (men can and do wear form-fitting leggings and would also have been turned away based on the airline's unisex dress code for NRSA travel).
Also pretty sure that 0% of the press will ask why and whether NRSA dress code rules exist. I think it's an arcane holdover, like the electronic-devices-after-takeoff situation which mysteriously became safe overnight. Like a throwback to a time when people actually looked at one another in public instead of staring intently at the nearest LCD screen for hours.
I think it's not particularly a gender discrimination thing (men can and do wear form-fitting leggings and would also have been turned away based on the airline's unisex dress code for NRSA travel).
Also pretty sure that 0% of the press will ask why and whether NRSA dress code rules exist. I think it's an arcane holdover, like the electronic-devices-after-takeoff situation which mysteriously became safe overnight. Like a throwback to a time when people actually looked at one another in public instead of staring intently at the nearest LCD screen for hours.
The story had enough legs that the NYT did finally run a second-day follow-up, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/b...ress-code.html , discussing why airlines have employee dress codes and touching on whether they should. ("What Can You Wear on a Plane? It Depends Who’s Paying".)
(And of course the industry press and bloggers understood the issue the first time around.)
Mar 27, 2017, 3:09 pm
#229
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I don't get it: why should the attire worn on public transit be any different based on the type of vehicle involved? Bus, train, plane, subway, streetcar, whatever... We can certainly have the debate about whether leggings are suitable to be worn in public (I happen to think the modern versions are fine), but why would they be okay on a bus but not on some other form of transit?
Mar 27, 2017, 3:32 pm
#230
Join Date: May 2013
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Mar 27, 2017, 4:20 pm
#231
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hard to believe this thing is still going. Do they not have dress guidelines at media companies? Can't really think of any place that doesn't have some type of do's / don'ts dress code (no open toed shoes, no jeans with holes, seem fairly standard)
Simple solution is go back to requiring business formal for all pass riders if the casual code can't be respected (that used to be a collared shirt and tie, even if you we're a 5 year old boy ;-)
btw would hate to be the sponsor of these two...assuming they will all be buying future air-travel at normal rates including the employee.
Simple solution is go back to requiring business formal for all pass riders if the casual code can't be respected (that used to be a collared shirt and tie, even if you we're a 5 year old boy ;-)
btw would hate to be the sponsor of these two...assuming they will all be buying future air-travel at normal rates including the employee.
Mar 27, 2017, 4:49 pm
#233
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Doesn't this thread almost perfectly demark the typical rift on the FT boards? And most other s/m boards.
There are those who maintain that rules are in place and therefore a person or organization adhering to those rules - even rigidly, even when an exception makes the most sense - are never wrong for doing just that. And that those who "demand" exceptions are basically self-centered. (In this way of thinking, a request is tantamount to a demand because it forces the request to refused).
And there are those who feel that perception often trumps reality (pardon me for dancing near the PR pun border) and that organizations which insist on a zero-tolerance adherence to their rules makes them look just like the worst school boards in the country. The ones that expel 6 year olds for making "finger guns" or kissing a little girl on the cheek, not due to the actions themselves , but simply because they have violence and harassment rules in place.
Finally, it appears everyone agrees that if you can't dance the line on social media you're probably doing more harm than good engaging in that arena. Limit s/m to actual customer service problems. Use DM more and Tweet less.
There are those who maintain that rules are in place and therefore a person or organization adhering to those rules - even rigidly, even when an exception makes the most sense - are never wrong for doing just that. And that those who "demand" exceptions are basically self-centered. (In this way of thinking, a request is tantamount to a demand because it forces the request to refused).
And there are those who feel that perception often trumps reality (pardon me for dancing near the PR pun border) and that organizations which insist on a zero-tolerance adherence to their rules makes them look just like the worst school boards in the country. The ones that expel 6 year olds for making "finger guns" or kissing a little girl on the cheek, not due to the actions themselves , but simply because they have violence and harassment rules in place.
Finally, it appears everyone agrees that if you can't dance the line on social media you're probably doing more harm than good engaging in that arena. Limit s/m to actual customer service problems. Use DM more and Tweet less.
Yes. Its the old "rules must be followed" vs. "what the hell is the point of the rule, and is it being applied stupidly. A basic black/white vs Color view of relativity.
Mar 27, 2017, 5:30 pm
#235
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I can't believe I read the whole thing! 
There's not much I can add that hasn't already been said. But I think that this gets to the heart of the matter. And, yet, it's the part that I understand the least. Don't more of us see that both points have value and that this isn't a black/white thing? 
United's policies are clearly laid out. While I have never flown (and probably never will fly) non-rev, I have friends who do. Even I know that there are dress standards for non-rev pax. So I don't have a lot of sympathy for the women who were turned away. They should have known better, and UA should have handled it better.
OTOH, I don't see what UA stands to gain from enforcing a policy which, as others have said, have impacts that almost none of us see. And I don't blame anyone from being critical of it; yet I wouldn't blame UA for incorporating (or not) that criticism as they see fit.
In the end, there are lessons that UA can draw from this on a few levels. I hope they do. I also hope that people start thinking more critically about news that they read and events that they observe.
United's policies are clearly laid out. While I have never flown (and probably never will fly) non-rev, I have friends who do. Even I know that there are dress standards for non-rev pax. So I don't have a lot of sympathy for the women who were turned away. They should have known better, and UA should have handled it better.
OTOH, I don't see what UA stands to gain from enforcing a policy which, as others have said, have impacts that almost none of us see. And I don't blame anyone from being critical of it; yet I wouldn't blame UA for incorporating (or not) that criticism as they see fit.
In the end, there are lessons that UA can draw from this on a few levels. I hope they do. I also hope that people start thinking more critically about news that they read and events that they observe.
Mar 27, 2017, 5:39 pm
#236
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CNN just issued an opinion piece on its website that IMHO seems to try and explain the realities of pass travel to the public...
http://cnn.it/2mJOflr
http://cnn.it/2mJOflr
Mar 27, 2017, 5:40 pm
#237
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Mar 27, 2017, 9:06 pm
#238
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And note for the record, that h3ll has frozen over, since is the first time I've ever agreed with fly18725.
Mar 27, 2017, 9:22 pm
#239
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I have a simple solution -- UA could solve the problem by denying passes to anyone except employees flying in uniform.
People who are benefiting from a company's optional policy should keep their mouth shut about complaining about the policy.
People who are benefiting from a company's optional policy should keep their mouth shut about complaining about the policy.