haddon90

i prefer LGA over the other two airports as it is way easier to get to midtown via cab.

bob_the_d

DL doesn't have 3 class. they seem to be doing okay.

red grenadine

I live in Manhattan. I work in finance. I fly business class on business. I am talking business customers who work in midtown east. Bankers. Lawyers. Private Equity. Hedge funds. Advertising guys. Fashion guys. They are not taking public transportation into or out of manhattan to freaking Newark

Now personal flying? It's great. I live on the west side. I take the Holland tunnel and am there quickly. But there is no way in hell I am taking a black car from midtown east to Newark via the Lincoln Tunnel at 5 or 6PM trying to catch a business flight to SFO. I'll fly Delta out of JFK where I can feasibly get off the island

milesmuncher

I agree with you on that 2nd part, though I can't help wonder what share of that HVF O/D traffic loss will be due to people thoughtfully evaluating the merits of EWR vs. JFK and deciding that they'd prefer to stay with JFK (e.g. because they're traveling to/from the east side, Brooklyn, LI, etc.) vs. the "snob" factor mentioned previously in this thread.

I just don't see what makes JFK so special for UA passengers, apart from maybe the smallness of the terminal. EWR can be a cluster if you're traveling at the wrong time, but that doesn't really impact GS HVFers or anyone with pre-check. It's not like these flights are going to be operated out of A (though the notion of upgrading A significantly and making it a dedicated PS area would be pretty cool...)

nnn

Which is generally easier to get to during rush hour from the Grand Central Station area: EWR or JFK? Both car and public transit are options.

RockinPete

Agreed. I don't know too many people, more so New Yorkers, that prefer JFK or EWR to LGA.

But, UA doesn't fly to LAX or SFO (direct) from LGA.
IF UA does start to fly to LGA direct, even non-PS service, I would be okay with this move and I would understand.

To me, it seems like it's only a matter of 6-18 months before UA announces pulling out of LGA.

Weez_1000

^

You beat me to it. Im sure many business flyers take cars to the airport but I dont care if you're flying out of JFK or EWR. If you are traveling out of Manhattan its ALWAYS going to be crapshoot whether you need to leave an hour or 3 hours early. As someone who commutes in and out of the city on a daily basis you're a fool to be driving (or being driven) unless your commute is off hours.

Always Flyin

Just so we can watch the continued decline:

Today: how many seats are there on UA non-stop on a week-day between JFK/EWR and SFO and JFK/EWR and LAX? What percentage of those seats are premium seats? What percentage are lay flat?

Who thinks those will stay at the current levels? [Not me.]

As the AA Board of Directors was heard today at lunch while clinking champagne glasses: "Thanks Jeff!"

bob_the_d

i agree with mostly not taking public transportation, i fly on business and i never take public transportation.

but i also don't agree with the blanket "manhattan people only like JFK" argument. i have lots of colleagues that fly out of EWR. and LGA. and JFK. i've never really met people who said "i'm ditching united because they're making me fly through EWR." but i do find people who say "i guess i'm flying through EWR because i live in chicago and UA is making me go there."

there definitely will be some impact (i don't know if it will be positive or negative, but it will be different i'm sure) but i guess as far as i've observed, i've never met anyone from out of town who was staunchly adamant to fly into any particular airport. i don't think anyone really cares. time, schedule, connections. whatever airline they choose and gets them there is what they book. i think the whole "i prefer this airport" value is way overblown.

and as a UA flyer (both pmUA and pmCO both) flying out of LGA was the worst. the terminal they used was awful. and with frequent delays, i'd rather be delayed at EWR than LGA, and give up the 15-20 minute commute cut.

Always Flyin

I am able to get a lot of work done in the back of a car that I certainly couldn't/wouldn't do on a train.

riphamilton

Truly the end of an Era. I started flying pmUA on RTW flights 1/2 in elementary school. JFK was incredibly convenient for me

Boo_Radley

I'm actually surprised they didn't just drop ps entirely, since it's really not needed to keep pricing power at EWR, though I'm assuming the price delta they can get over EWR dom F will still justify it. Speaking of which, we're now in a situation where J to EWR costs more than F. Wrap your head around that.

milesmuncher

I really think you're over-estimating the pain of getting to EWR during rush hour and under-estimating the pain of getting to JFK. Neither is fun, but IME JFK has generally been worse - even from Midtown East.

As a quick test, I just searched Grand Central to both EWR and JFK, leaving at 5pm today via car. EWR estimate is 28-55 minutes, JFK is 30 to 90.

Your experience might be different, and maybe Grand Central is a poor choice to represent Midtown East, but in general I think people's perceptions are warped by the fact that the worst traffic crunch heading to EWR is still within Manhattan (tunnels) vs. heading to JFK it's almost all the way to JFK (Van Wyck).

bennos

I just don't buy *A connections at JFK being an issue. So you lose SFO, LAX, and ...? That's it? Most connections already have to be routed via another connection point, whether it's EWR, ORD, SFO, LAX, or whatever.

AirTrain to NJT is unreliable, slow, out of service half the time, prices roughly the same as JFK (~$10) and way more than LGA ($2.75), and connects to an NJT service with terrible frequencies, especially on weekends. That said, I don't see this being an issue either. Either you travel by car (in which case JFK and EWR are essentially equal, given traffic vagueness) or you travel by transit (in which case 15 minutes isn't a meaningful difference).

DL is also improving it's J service. See, eg, the new VIP entrance at LAX, available to DL J TCON passengers and equivalent to AA Flagship Checkin.

I think the consolidation to EWR makes sense, given UA's relatively weak competitive position. They eliminate a major cost center at JFK, increase connecting opportunities (what if I want to fly XXX-EWR-LAX from a second tier airport?) and have the potential to drive yields up given the only competition is VX, which is relatively weak competition. Of course, they'll find a way to screw it up...

entropy

Neither do VX or B6. But DL has a better product. They have a superior J product, a superior lounge product, products and a terminal they are investing in today.

UA is still touting the $2 Billion EWR "global gateway" makeover CO did in 1999.