tuolumne

You don't know what you're talking about. The high-profile 744 routes regularly sell-out the entire F-cabin. Ask any UAL employee/retiree how easy it is to NRSA on SFO/ORD/LAX-NRT/HKG/SYD/LHR. Two words: Good Luck.

sincx

New Boeing planes are turning into 17.0-17.3" nightmares. Looks like I'll be going out of my way to fly 777-200s and Airbuses.

ORDnHKG

I suggest you look at the manifest to see how many NRSA are actually in F for ORD-HKG and LAX-SYD first before you make the assumption.

The only times NRSA were actually able to fly F on ORD-HKG was years ago when UA operated a 2nd ORD-HKG (remembered that ?) 3 days a week !

Longboater

With this management, zero chance Three Class planes will ever return to United. If one of the big three move to a true Premium Economy, I would be willing to bet this management would be the last to install it let alone consider it. With likely the highest 4th quarter profit in company history, this management won't be going anywhere. United would be foolish not to install 1-2-1 J class seating on the 77W. American's seats weren't ready for the 77W, unrelated note still having factory issues, but they still managed to install 1-2-1 J seating.

bocastephen

Either the customers are getting deep discounts, upgrading for free from full J, or they are just nuts.

mduell

Air Canada is a great example, they only fit 42 1-2-1 up front with 307 in the back. Even with the 9->10 change in the back, that only frees up 3.5 rows of E which is 2 rows of business. Gets you to 50 J with no E+.

32"->31" pitch frees up another half row, and even generously assuming you can fit 3 rows of the angled 1-2-1 config in 4 rows of coach, you're at 54 J/0 E+/~310 E- = 10 J seats and 70 E+ seats short of what you claim can be done.

tuolumne

You just answered the primary driving factor that keeps F profitable on these routes - getting pax to buy full fare J in hopes of an upgrade into the next higher cabin. Not possible on 2-class. Moreover, they aren't upgrading "for free", they're burning upgrade insteuments.

And don't delude yourself, the 12-seat F-cabin makes a material difference on the routes that can support it. I know you don't like it, but there are people who actually buy full fare F on UA, many people on these tier I routes, actually.

Regardless, you're very wrong about only NRSA getting these seats. Nice try!

UA_Flyer

if UA keeps it's current(PMCO) C seats on 77W, then I would definitely hope for a three-cabin configuration.

If UA goes for new 1-2-1 in C, then I am fine with 2-cabin. I have flown the EVA 1-2-1 77W configuration and really like it. Alternatively, UA should consider the LH 748 C seats as another alternative.

Side topic: I have pretty much stop watching PTV on 744 now the streaming is available on personal devices. More choices of movies and TV shows than PTV programming. It is great having streamed programming on those 744 and airbuses.

sbm12

Which airline seat manufacturers are sitting on excess inventory these days?? Most seem to be struggling to keep up, not struggling to empty out warehouses.

United_727

Well ,certainly PMUA would have never ordered 77W's because they have GE90 engines . They should have ordered them years ago.

fly18725

I've heard the intent is for new J seats to be used if these aircraft are ordered, and it's still an "if."

bocastephen

Not quite. Through our, and a couple other select agencies, you can buy full J and upgrade to F without using miles/instruments - it's a special arrangement we're able to offer (on LH as well), but as I've written on a few occasions, no matter how we market it, no one will pay full J for UA GF - smart customers understand the value proposition and will either pay deep discount J on another carrier, or our high value customers will just pay discounted F on their preferred foreign carrier. Case in point - I've mentioned it here on numerous occasions, yet not a single FT member has sent me a message asking for information because nobody here is going to pay full J to sit in GF given their more extensive knowledge of the product.

People are not stupid - when even the CFO of the airline questions the value proposition of GF, it's plainly obvious to everyone, including customers.

If you have actual data supporting the purchase of full fare GF on specific routes, I'm all ears - but I maintain my position that GF occupants are mileage redemptions, instrument (or comped) upgrades, discounted A or corp fares, or NRSA. If someone pays full fare GF vs taking an international carrier for the same price, they need their head examined.

Believe me, I'd love to be sitting here all day long booking full J trips for customers and upgrading them to GF for free, but it's not a realistic deal for people who would rather spend that same 9-12k on a foreign competitor.

kevanyalowitz

The problem is, UA 1-2-1 J will not be the same experience as as BR J. Your crap food will be quickly handed/plopped into your lap, paired with crap 'red or white' wines, followed by a wait for far too few bathrooms. Thats how 50+ seat 'premium' cabins work on UA.

It's always entertaining to watch people assume their narrow view of the world represents what is going on everywhere.

ironmanjt

Ditto for us, and have to imagine it's not uncommon for other large contracts.

Full Y -> C with no instrument
Full J -> F with no instrument

airb330

Aren't the new LH C seats worse (or at best about the same as) the PMCO C seats? 2-2-2 with the strange foot divider doesn't seem any better. If UA is staying 2-2-2 they might as well keep the PMCO seats just for fleet harmonization.