New UA BF seat research
Aug 30, 2014, 3:25 am
#92
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC: UA 1K, DL Platinum, AAirpass, Avis PC
Posts: 4,599
What could be remaining to disclose? Pretty good description of what it will be.
Now it comes down to timing. How quickly does the first get installed, what's the refurb plan, and how dense will biz be vs coach.
If it involves making planes higher density the process could go more quickly because they have the revenue incentive to do it. Great for full fare flyers. Less so for mixed full fare biz / coach fare flyers who upgrade.
Upgraders will get more utility out of a less dense config that is installed over a longer period.
Now it comes down to timing. How quickly does the first get installed, what's the refurb plan, and how dense will biz be vs coach.
If it involves making planes higher density the process could go more quickly because they have the revenue incentive to do it. Great for full fare flyers. Less so for mixed full fare biz / coach fare flyers who upgrade.
Upgraders will get more utility out of a less dense config that is installed over a longer period.
I don't want to discuss details because of the NDA but having tested the prototypes and flown on the current AA 777-300 seat and the Delta seat, I would say these seats are competitive but not necessarily better. I think for some people they will be better but for some they will not depending on personal preferences.
The prototypes shown were a significant leap forward from the current UA/CO seat but NOT a significant leap forward from the new AA 777-300 seat by any measure that I could detect.
We should be happy that UA is not considering a less than state of the art seat like the business class seat Lufthansa is currently rolling out, which does not even offer direct aisle access for all seats.
The prototypes shown were a significant leap forward from the current UA/CO seat but NOT a significant leap forward from the new AA 777-300 seat by any measure that I could detect.
We should be happy that UA is not considering a less than state of the art seat like the business class seat Lufthansa is currently rolling out, which does not even offer direct aisle access for all seats.
Aug 30, 2014, 5:01 am
#93
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,613
If they roll this out the way they rolled out WiFi, no one need hold their breath waiting for the new configuration.
Aug 30, 2014, 7:04 am
#94
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Zero to finished in about a year and a half is same/ahead of the schedule of how long it took DL and AA.
Aug 30, 2014, 8:24 am
#95
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicago
Programs: UA-1K-MM AA-EXP-MM
Posts: 726
Aug 30, 2014, 10:01 am
#96
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Aug 30, 2014, 10:42 am
#98
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,613
This.
Aug 30, 2014, 11:03 am
#99
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: DEN/OGG
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 1,482
Aug 30, 2014, 5:49 pm
#100
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS 2.9MM, Bonvoy lifetime Gold
Posts: 14
Aug 31, 2014, 6:35 am
#101
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Delta began domestic wifi installation in August of 2008 and finished in June of 2010.
American began domestic wifi installation in July of 2008 and to my knowledge still hasn't finished.
United began domestic wifi installation in May of 2013 and is expected to finish with domestic birds around spring of next year, substantially beating all of the other majors in terms of speed of roll-out.
Last edited by andrewwm; Aug 31, 2014 at 6:43 am
Aug 31, 2014, 7:42 am
#102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
Aug 31, 2014, 7:50 am
#103
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
Aug 31, 2014, 9:11 am
#104
Join Date: Aug 2013
Programs: UA-GS, Hyatt-Defiantly Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, SPG-Platinum
Posts: 499
When UA started lie flat in 2007 it was the best seat of the US carriers.
When CO started lie flat in 2009 it went with a newer gen seat than UA to avoid rear facing. And DL / AA had no lie flats, so that was enough then.
It's simply a function of what's available in the market when the spec is made.
When DL went lie flat it went with a seat better than UA or CO biz.
When AA went lie flat it went with one better than UA, CO, or DL.
The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.
It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
When CO started lie flat in 2009 it went with a newer gen seat than UA to avoid rear facing. And DL / AA had no lie flats, so that was enough then.
It's simply a function of what's available in the market when the spec is made.
When DL went lie flat it went with a seat better than UA or CO biz.
When AA went lie flat it went with one better than UA, CO, or DL.
The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.
It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
Contrast that with wifi and Internet access- Sure, the wifi rollout is way behind the competition, and sure they could have installed Gogo, but would that have worked over the ocean? Waiting for the sat system that allows access to wifi and internet over the ocean provides a product that is better than the competition.
These are two examples, one where they installed the best at the time and one where they waited. For the seat config, they get blasted because they didn't install - at the time - what wasn't available or needed to have the best dense config. For the wifi, they waited to install something that is (or will be) arguably better than what the competition has (including the streaming IFE) and for that they are also blasted for waiting!
So they're damned if the do and if they don't. Let's give them a break and be glad they are investing.
Looking in my crystal ball, I can see we're in for a fire storm when the number of seats available for upgrade on the new all-aisle access is less than today. "They suck!"
Oh, and I'm going to really miss my GF.
Aug 31, 2014, 9:21 am
#105
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
I wonder how close the "simulation" will be. Dry air, lower pressure, noise of the plane, random turbulence, random announcements in 3 languages, lavs, FA's waking you up to check your seat belt (this has never actually happened to me before though)