fly18725

Although earnings are important, capital expenditures are also a huge focus at UAL. i think employees and galley space on the different aircraft are bigger impediments to soft product improvement then the expense.

787fan

Theirs is a mixed bag right now

767 are front only
77W are reverse herringbone, front only
77E/787 are reverse herringbone, front+rear
757 are nothing inspiring

And that's only the PMAA fleet. The rear seats stare directly into the aisle - kinda awkward if you ask me.

JC1120

I haven't seen the product yet, but my understanding is that the main seat in contention is not a "standard" product by any of the manufacturers; rather it is a seat independently developed (not sure if in-house or by a third-party) that will be bid out to all the major manufacturers once finalized.

I've also been told that direct aisle access for all seats and being all front facing are things the next product is striving to achieve. Not sure exactly how to do this without significantly increasing the space needs of each pod, or having some major drawbacks, but hopefully they can prove me wrong. Personally, direct aisle access is important for me, but I don't mind rear-facing if done correctly. The BA product for one, makes a workable rear-facing seat. There are plenty of other issues with the seat (width, storage, the strange foot rest, etc.) but I think they're solvable issues.

nygiants242

I remember there being articles in the past of customers checking out prototype seats (after signing an NDA) - but what does the timeline realistically look like for a legitimate update to be rolled out? Seats seem quite dated honestly, and it would be great to finally have a product that is at least in the same ballpark as EU carriers, and barely sniff Asian/Middle Eastern airlines. As a loyal Star Alliance person, it is a shame that United can't take the lead on this and be the clear standout among US airlines.

nyr2299

Doubtful its anytime soon in my mind. The 787's are ordered with the pmCO B1st seats, and they just completed the retrofit of the old planes in the last 2 or 3 years. Maybe on the next order after the 787's, but that would be at least 5 years out.

nerdbirdsjc

The current BF is ahead of most international longhaul airlines who have yet to install flat beds on all of their longhaul flights, including the likes of Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, and Emirates. That said, expect a new BF suite around 2017-2018, to coincide with either the introduction of the sUA 787s, or (more likely) the introduction of the A350s.

fgirard

You might want to take AF and KLM out of that list as a good chunk of their long-haul C seats have been converted to lie-flat, which is a lot like the SN and LX C seats.*

*So far my 744 Combi for LAX-AMS in May shows the converted C cabin.

Darlox

While pmUA/pmCO arguments are a bit of a third-rail around here that I'm loathe to touch, when compared to both domestic and global competition, the pmCO BF product is still competitive. Talking about herringbone or other configurations (which isn't going to happen until the next gen of planes are delivered) is one thing, but the seat itself is still not a competitive liability.

The pmUA product is rapidly losing ground, however, especially in the 2-4-2 configuration. The only hope there might be of replacing that sooner than on an airframe-refresh cycle would be if they come up with a true strategy for Global First on the existing equipment -- including possibly its complete removal. I could see seat refreshes happening as they yank that entire cabin and replace it with 2x as many BF seats, possibly of a new design.

Otherwise, there's no indication of anything forthcoming.

TA

I think from all the lessons of US airline economics, it is a safe bet to say that no American carrier is going to take the lead on refurbishing their hard product until it becomes clear that the deficiency is causing major passenger defection.

They do not get financially rewarded for having a slightly superior product. Another way to say it is that the competitive forces do not permit spending on these kinds of upgrades before their long overdue time. And that is the main problem of this industry.