New UA BF seat research

Old Aug 29, 14, 10:49 pm
  #91  
 
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I did hear back and received a confirmation for Tuesday evening 9/9 in SEA with a tour of the Boeing facility the next morning. Looking forward to the tour.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 3:25 am
  #92  
 
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What could be remaining to disclose? Pretty good description of what it will be.

Now it comes down to timing. How quickly does the first get installed, what's the refurb plan, and how dense will biz be vs coach.

If it involves making planes higher density the process could go more quickly because they have the revenue incentive to do it. Great for full fare flyers. Less so for mixed full fare biz / coach fare flyers who upgrade.

Upgraders will get more utility out of a less dense config that is installed over a longer period.

Originally Posted by ORD4R View Post
I don't want to discuss details because of the NDA but having tested the prototypes and flown on the current AA 777-300 seat and the Delta seat, I would say these seats are competitive but not necessarily better. I think for some people they will be better but for some they will not depending on personal preferences.

The prototypes shown were a significant leap forward from the current UA/CO seat but NOT a significant leap forward from the new AA 777-300 seat by any measure that I could detect.

We should be happy that UA is not considering a less than state of the art seat like the business class seat Lufthansa is currently rolling out, which does not even offer direct aisle access for all seats.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 5:01 am
  #93  
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
What could be remaining to disclose? Pretty good description of what it will be.

Now it comes down to timing. How quickly does the first get installed, what's the refurb plan, and how dense will biz be vs coach.
If they roll this out the way they rolled out WiFi, no one need hold their breath waiting for the new configuration.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 7:04 am
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
If they roll this out the way they rolled out WiFi, no one need hold their breath waiting for the new configuration.
Wifi has been rolled out pretty quickly. They're doing about 4-5 planes a week Zero to finished in about a year and a half is same/ahead of the schedule of how long it took DL and AA.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
....
Now it comes down to timing.....
I was told my level of expectation should be 2 years before I see the first seat actually on UA aircraft and that UA was still very early in process of seat selection and customization.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 10:01 am
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
Wifi has been rolled out pretty quickly. They're doing about 4-5 planes a week Zero to finished in about a year and a half is same/ahead of the schedule of how long it took DL and AA.
Thanks for my morning laugh. Does nothing for your credibility, but your post is funny.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 10:18 am
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New UA BF seat research

The wifi roll out (once they got started) actually did go very fast. It just took them forever to get going.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 10:42 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
Wifi has been rolled out pretty quickly. They're doing about 4-5 planes a week Zero to finished in about a year and a half is same/ahead of the schedule of how long it took DL and AA.
Now they are, years after falling behind the competition.

Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite View Post
The wifi roll out (once they got started) actually did go very fast. It just took them forever to get going.
This.
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Old Aug 30, 14, 11:03 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by UALatSFO View Post
I did hear back and received a confirmation for Tuesday evening 9/9 in SEA with a tour of the Boeing facility the next morning. Looking forward to the tour.
I did not hear back. I guess being 6'6" disqualified me
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Old Aug 30, 14, 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Plane-is-home View Post
I did not hear back. I guess being 6'6" disqualified me
I'm just under 6 feet. I will have to take note if they have people of all sizes attend.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 6:35 am
  #101  
 
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post
Thanks for my morning laugh. Does nothing for your credibility, but your post is funny.
Thanks for the gratuitous insult, but as usual you are wrong.

Delta began domestic wifi installation in August of 2008 and finished in June of 2010.

American began domestic wifi installation in July of 2008 and to my knowledge still hasn't finished.

United began domestic wifi installation in May of 2013 and is expected to finish with domestic birds around spring of next year, substantially beating all of the other majors in terms of speed of roll-out.

Last edited by andrewwm; Aug 31, 14 at 6:43 am
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Old Aug 31, 14, 7:42 am
  #102  
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Originally Posted by andrewwm View Post
American began domestic wifi installation in July of 2008 and to my knowledge still hasn't finished.
I've yet to fly AA mainline and NOT have wifi.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 7:50 am
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Originally Posted by UA-NYC View Post
I've yet to fly AA mainline and NOT have wifi.
According to GoGo, there are some domestic 757s left in the AA fleet that don't have wifi (and may never have it). Regardless, the AA rollout was relatively slow.

Last edited by andrewwm; Aug 31, 14 at 8:00 am
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Old Aug 31, 14, 9:11 am
  #104  
 
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Originally Posted by cerealmarketer View Post
When UA started lie flat in 2007 it was the best seat of the US carriers.

When CO started lie flat in 2009 it went with a newer gen seat than UA to avoid rear facing. And DL / AA had no lie flats, so that was enough then.

It's simply a function of what's available in the market when the spec is made.

When DL went lie flat it went with a seat better than UA or CO biz.

When AA went lie flat it went with one better than UA, CO, or DL.

The seat market is competitive, and the vendors are fighting for airline share. So they've presented UA with something better than AA / DL, and probably at a similar price as they get the cost down with each iteration.

It won't blow Etihad away, but history says the new seat will beat AA and DL's current installs.
I'm glad you wrote this. I was the first to complain to UA about the non-aisle access in BF, just after I switched from DL. But at that time DL still had plenty of seats that were not lie-flat. It's easy to forget that UA was the first US carrier to have all lie-flat on long haul in J. These things go in cycles, and instead of claiming that UA under-invested or horribly lags the competition, we should be glad to know they are investing to improve what was industry leading and compared to some that still have non-lie flat, it is!!!!

Contrast that with wifi and Internet access- Sure, the wifi rollout is way behind the competition, and sure they could have installed Gogo, but would that have worked over the ocean? Waiting for the sat system that allows access to wifi and internet over the ocean provides a product that is better than the competition.

These are two examples, one where they installed the best at the time and one where they waited. For the seat config, they get blasted because they didn't install - at the time - what wasn't available or needed to have the best dense config. For the wifi, they waited to install something that is (or will be) arguably better than what the competition has (including the streaming IFE) and for that they are also blasted for waiting!

So they're damned if the do and if they don't. Let's give them a break and be glad they are investing.

Looking in my crystal ball, I can see we're in for a fire storm when the number of seats available for upgrade on the new all-aisle access is less than today. "They suck!"

Oh, and I'm going to really miss my GF.
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Old Aug 31, 14, 9:21 am
  #105  
 
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I wonder how close the "simulation" will be. Dry air, lower pressure, noise of the plane, random turbulence, random announcements in 3 languages, lavs, FA's waking you up to check your seat belt (this has never actually happened to me before though)
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