MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
May 28, 2017, 11:18 am
#916
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
How does this add up to "millons". Whether the original passeneger or someone else uses the miles, upgrades, ETC, it costs UA the same amount of money. Unless you consider every time a mile, upgrade, or ETC gets used a loss.
I think you over estimate the number of people who read these threads or are on Ft at all.
Yeah, its a great deterrent for the tiny population of UA flyers who actually read these threads.
It's not a deterrent at all for the majority of people who sell these certs, miles, upgrades, etc.
I think you over estimate the number of people who read these threads or are on Ft at all.
Yeah, its a great deterrent for the tiny population of UA flyers who actually read these threads.
It's not a deterrent at all for the majority of people who sell these certs, miles, upgrades, etc.
Industry-wide, 40% of these sorts of vouchers, credits, and other funny-money go unused. I can't speak to OP or his specific cert, but enterprise-wide, that nets out to $75. The $50, on average, is not breakage if people can convert these to cash.
All of the suggestions about how to get reinstated or to commit further fraud after the ban are music to the ears of the UA (and other carrier) marketers. Goes to prove their theory that they can boot someone from GS to nothing, strip him of his miles, and put him in a position where he boards last, pays for bags, and so on, and the guy still comes groveling back.
May 28, 2017, 11:41 am
#917
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
The OP can just open a new account with a different address/country and use forms of payment that were never used on UA before. Just enter a different date of birth on the traveler profile, the TSA never actually verifies this information anyway, nor does UA. Keep the information new/different/fresh and it's unlikely to be detected.
If their spend stays the same, they will be 1k again, and later perhaps, GS.
If their spend stays the same, they will be 1k again, and later perhaps, GS.
May 28, 2017, 11:52 am
#918
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: AS, UA, WN, IHG Diamond Elite, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Gold, CET 7*
Posts: 3,301
Yes, but it's not actively checked and verified. If one flies international, the only time it would be corrected is if an agent notices at check-in and manually updates it.
Before pre-check, during the "at-war" years many of us had with the TSA, we regularly entered false birthdates to mess with their database without any repercussion.
Before pre-check, during the "at-war" years many of us had with the TSA, we regularly entered false birthdates to mess with their database without any repercussion.
This has to be the worst advice I've read in a very long time.
May 28, 2017, 12:19 pm
#919
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
NO, the AS T&C say that one may not sell, barter, etc. but do not say that the ATTEMPT to sell, barter, etc. is prohibited. They're different. A literal reading of the AS rule in bold says that it's OK if the sale isn't concluded.
I'm certainly not saying that I think it's OK to attempt to sell upgrade instruments, miles, award tickets, etc., but the AS rules don't explicitly prohibit the ATTEMPT to do so.
I'm certainly not saying that I think it's OK to attempt to sell upgrade instruments, miles, award tickets, etc., but the AS rules don't explicitly prohibit the ATTEMPT to do so.
May 28, 2017, 12:44 pm
#920
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
There seems to be a presumption that folks selling these certs don't know about the prohibition or rules (clearly attached in a short list of T&Cs). I think that is native concept in reference to many of the sellers. Many actually state that the certs can not be sold or bartered in their posting
or
In a recent case, in the OP, there are no claims, "did not know about the rules" -- the OP is about "I did not expect such a response from UA. I expected a warning" (my words, not a quote)
No claims of ignorance (with a statement of having viewed many ebay postings) but rather surprised of no warning or second chance.
Please note: Per the terms and conditions, this certificate cannot be sold or bartered. Therefore, this action is not for the sale of the certificate itself. Instead, consider this auction my fee to help arrange travel for the auction winner.
You are bidding on travel information on the specific flight and aircraft as scheduled. This information has been complied by me from personal experience and the experience of others. It includes any services for the flight and some seating information including some conditions you may want steer clear of when selecting seats.
Included as my gift is a free one way Global Premier Upgrade (GPU) per info packet.
Included as my gift is a free one way Global Premier Upgrade (GPU) per info packet.
... Noone every contacted me to inform me that my account was closed. I would imagine the loyalty i have given to the company over 20 years would count for something. I solely fly United and use the service 3-4 flights a month.
After multiple emails over 2 weeks (to Mr. Munoz), the security team finally called back and stated there was no possible reversal and that I couldn't open another Mileage Plus account in my lifetime.
I have never experienced a Customer Service situation like this with any retailer, service provider, travel and entertainment organization or other company of this nature. I do understand their policy and respect organizational policies, however disrepecting 20 years of loyalty and hundreds of Ks of flights is something I find very hard to comprehend.
After multiple emails over 2 weeks (to Mr. Munoz), the security team finally called back and stated there was no possible reversal and that I couldn't open another Mileage Plus account in my lifetime.
I have never experienced a Customer Service situation like this with any retailer, service provider, travel and entertainment organization or other company of this nature. I do understand their policy and respect organizational policies, however disrepecting 20 years of loyalty and hundreds of Ks of flights is something I find very hard to comprehend.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 28, 2017 at 2:34 pm Reason: double word cleanup
May 28, 2017, 1:02 pm
#921
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,140
You are reading way too much into that, and have no ground to stand on. That's like saying those offes to sell an evelope for $200 on eBay (with a free GPU!) are legitimate. Go ahead and try that. The results will be identical.
May 28, 2017, 2:18 pm
#922
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 15,028
...The OP can just open a new account with a different address/country and use forms of payment that were never used on UA before. Just enter a different date of birth on the traveler profile, the TSA never actually verifies this information anyway, nor does UA. Keep the information new/different/fresh and it's unlikely to be detected...
May 28, 2017, 3:05 pm
#923
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Washington DC and Denver CO
Programs: UA 1K, Bonvoy Titanium/LT Gold
Posts: 379
It also boggles my mind how un-valuable people find their own time and effort that they'd do something like this for a lousy hundred bucks.
May 28, 2017, 3:21 pm
#924
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
Thank you. This is the exact kind of attitude that got us all here in the first place. "Me me me!" and trying to scam a quick buck. Maybe if people weren't so cheap and conniving UA would be more lenient. I for one am sick to death of all the travel blogs instructing people how to "screw over the system" and travel through loopholes and semi-scams.
It also boggles my mind how un-valuable people find their own time and effort that they'd do something like this for a lousy hundred bucks.
It also boggles my mind how un-valuable people find their own time and effort that they'd do something like this for a lousy hundred bucks.
im surprised these tactics are allowed to remain posted. Openly encouraging fraud is dangerous, and immature. Just don't break the rules. In the OP's case, don't profit off something that's not yours. It's that simple.
May 28, 2017, 3:22 pm
#925
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,236
I've noticed these certs and upgrades being sold over the years, and often times there's an acknowledgment on the eBay site that the certificates can't be sold, so instead they are selling an envelope with the cert inside, or advice on how to use the cert. Clearly this doesn't hold water.
May 28, 2017, 3:43 pm
#926
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Somewhere in EWR
Programs: UA GS, HH Diamond
Posts: 858
I can't think of any clearer way for someone to broadcast that they know they're breaking the rules. Particularly selling upgrade advice then giving the buyer a "free" cert. Just search eBay for "United Airlines upgrades" and there's a bunch of advice for sale (interesting how advice for a GPU is much more expensive than advice for using an RPU). Again, these sellers can't possibly be surprised when they get caught and find pleading ignorance gets them nowhere.
May 28, 2017, 7:09 pm
#927
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver & Phoenix
Programs: UA 2MM, Life UC, Global Entry (UK citizen)
Posts: 129
After reading the above posts, I'd like to get a clarification from a knowledgeable source in answer to this question:
Is it against UA's Rules to give an upgrade award (GPU or RPU) to anyone? (Viz. Give away for FREE......No selling, bartering, exchanges, NSA).....In other words, it's like giving to charity: you don't expect anything in return, including a tax deduction, except a Thank You.
When you say: "Be careful with this.", I'm thinking, yes, UA, had better be careful with this.........If anything happened to my account or an account or ticket of the person I gave the award to, UA had better have proof of wrongdoing/rule breaking or there would be no speedy "Dr. David Dao Settlement". Of that you can be sure. (As an example, I had a 2-year lawsuit with the 7th largest company in the U.S. at the time, Enron [acting as attorney pro se].......And, look what happened to them! 
)
Is it against UA's Rules to give an upgrade award (GPU or RPU) to anyone? (Viz. Give away for FREE......No selling, bartering, exchanges, NSA).....In other words, it's like giving to charity: you don't expect anything in return, including a tax deduction, except a Thank You.
Be careful with this. Although you have broken no rule, there have been reports of the passenger showing up to the airport only to find that their ticket has been cancelled. Sometimes stranding them in a far away country.
It seems that UA's security organization is like most security organizations that are empowered to do whatever they want with no accountability on themselves. They have no problem closing an account or cancelling a ticket with no notice or explanation. These types of people often feel they are always 100% right and you are there to serve them and become offended when you question them.
They seem to have no relation to customer service since they are not accountable to anyone.
So if you are giving away these to strangers its best to have something like a signed letter to prove you are giving it away and are not selling or bartering. The burden of proof is on you even though it should be on UA.
It seems that UA's security organization is like most security organizations that are empowered to do whatever they want with no accountability on themselves. They have no problem closing an account or cancelling a ticket with no notice or explanation. These types of people often feel they are always 100% right and you are there to serve them and become offended when you question them.
They seem to have no relation to customer service since they are not accountable to anyone.
So if you are giving away these to strangers its best to have something like a signed letter to prove you are giving it away and are not selling or bartering. The burden of proof is on you even though it should be on UA.
)
May 28, 2017, 7:15 pm
#928
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
It is absolutely NOT against Ua rules to give away miles, GPU/RPU, etc to ANYONE for free (not selling or bartering).
I said be careful because there were some reports where UA security saw activity that looked like fraudulent activity and caused alot of problems (ie. intl ticket cancelled without notice). Just do a search on the forums and you can read the long threads.
I said be careful because there were some reports where UA security saw activity that looked like fraudulent activity and caused alot of problems (ie. intl ticket cancelled without notice). Just do a search on the forums and you can read the long threads.
May 28, 2017, 7:20 pm
#929
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver & Phoenix
Programs: UA 2MM, Life UC, Global Entry (UK citizen)
Posts: 129
I'm sure you're right and I really do appreciate the warning. (Viz. There's no need to give any appearance of fraudulent activity).
However, UA must make things right when they do wrong.
However, UA must make things right when they do wrong.
