MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 518
Employee MP accounts closed by United for managed by one person
We have a small business with offices in both US and China. When flying employees to the US for business trips, I often recommend United flights and help the employees create and manage their MP accounts (taking care of expiration and award redemption for them). The miles are the employee's to keep. They usually just leave the miles in the accounts. Occasionally one may sponsor another employee's upgrade, or redeem an award ticket for friend/family.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
#2
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, HH Diamond, MR Gold, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 572
Whatever reason for having this rule, I see the benefit of protecting me from my company stepping in to manage my account and do whatever it wants with the miles up to and including "sponsoring" another employee's trip/upgrade with the miles earned from my butt in a seat.
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,892
We have a small business with offices in both US and China. When flying employees to the US for business trips, I often recommend United flights and help the employees create and manage their MP accounts (taking care of expiration and award redemption for them). The miles are the employee's to keep. They usually just leave the miles in the accounts. Occasionally one may sponsor another employee's upgrade, or redeem an award ticket for friend/family.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
#4
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Best I can figure is that this paragraph applies:
But even then they don't say anything about confiscating all the miles.
6. The MileagePlus Program is maintained for the benefit and participation of individual or small business members only. Only individuals and small businesses are eligible for MileagePlus membership, and each individual or small business member may maintain only one account in the Program. Duplicate accounts in the Program will be subject to cancellation and only the applicable credited mileage, excluding any enrollment or other bonus, will be transferred to any remaining account. Only one member may be enrolled per Program account. Program membership account numbers are nontransferable. Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information. Account information is United's proprietary information and members may access information only for the purpose of obtaining information about their account. No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party. Account information may be reproduced for use by the applicable member but must contain copyright and proprietary notices and redistribution in any way requires United's written permission.
#5
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: UA 1K- RCC
Posts: 457
How did they figure out this was the case I wonder? Was there a lot of activity between accounts?
I typically help manage my wife's, 2 kids and in laws at times accounts, basically because they don't have interest in it and understand all the processes. I sometimes sponsor them with miles and upgrades though not the other way around. Certainly hope this isn't an issue?
I typically help manage my wife's, 2 kids and in laws at times accounts, basically because they don't have interest in it and understand all the processes. I sometimes sponsor them with miles and upgrades though not the other way around. Certainly hope this isn't an issue?
#6
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,886
I have to admit that this is what I thought United was talking about when they told that other person "In order to keep the MileagePlus program free, we do require that our members self manage their accounts" (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-accounts.html).
#7
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
Programs: UA Pt, Marriott Ti, Hertz PC
Posts: 6,090
Whatever reason for having this rule, I see the benefit of protecting me from my company stepping in to manage my account and do whatever it wants with the miles up to and including "sponsoring" another employee's trip/upgrade with the miles earned from my butt in a seat.
Agree that it is likely the section that sbm12 quoted which is the relevant passage in this case, as it explicitly states that "Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information" and that "No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party."
Of course, I'm also technically in violation of that provision, as I manage my kids' accounts (they're 6 and 8 - they couldn't care less that they even HAVE accounts, lol), and sometimes my wife's and in-laws' online accounts.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,879
You're making quite a leap. While that is in the realm of possibility, I take the OP's statement at face value that he served only as a delegate to help manage the respective employees' accounts, not that he was using the accounts to his or his business's benefit.
Agree that it is likely the section that sbm12 quoted which is the relevant passage in this case, as it explicitly states that "Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information" and that "No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party."
Of course, I'm also technically in violation of that provision, as I manage my kids' accounts (they're 6 and 8 - they couldn't care less that they even HAVE accounts, lol), and sometimes my wife's and in-laws' online accounts.
Agree that it is likely the section that sbm12 quoted which is the relevant passage in this case, as it explicitly states that "Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information" and that "No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party."
Of course, I'm also technically in violation of that provision, as I manage my kids' accounts (they're 6 and 8 - they couldn't care less that they even HAVE accounts, lol), and sometimes my wife's and in-laws' online accounts.
"Participation in the MileagePlus Program (the "Program") is subject to any terms and conditions, rules, regulations, policies and procedures ("Program Rules") that United may, at its discretion, adopt from time to time. United has the sole right to interpret and apply the Program Rules. Any failure to follow Program Rules, United’s contract of carriage, United’s fare rules, any abuse of Program privileges, any violation of law, rule or regulation, any conduct detrimental to the interests of United, any fraudulent activity or attempted fraudulent activity, or any misrepresentation of any information furnished to United or its affiliates by any member, or anyone else acting on the member's behalf, may result in the termination by United of such member’s membership, the loss or cancellation of accrued mileage, certificates, awards or benefits, or both, or the loss of other Program benefits. Terminated members shall not be eligible to participate in any aspect of the Program, and members whose accounts have been terminated shall not be eligible to enroll with new accounts."
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,111
Seriously....thank goodness no Executive Admin ever "manages" the account of a HVF...
This company continues to crack me up about the things they choose to care about.....
This company continues to crack me up about the things they choose to care about.....
#10
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: at 35,000 feet
Programs: WN A-List; Hyatt Glob: CC/HH Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 1,473
How would they know/prove that this is actually the case? If the accounts are accessed from the same IP number that could be the outgoing number of a company where they all work, or in case of managing accounts for family, they would only see the gateway IP number. Or did you call in to discuss things for them?
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,899
How would they know/prove that this is actually the case? If the accounts are accessed from the same IP number that could be the outgoing number of a company where they all work, or in case of managing accounts for family, they would only see the gateway IP number. Or did you call in to discuss things for them?
#12
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,435
We have a small business with offices in both US and China. When flying employees to the US for business trips, I often recommend United flights and help the employees create and manage their MP accounts (taking care of expiration and award redemption for them). The miles are the employee's to keep. They usually just leave the miles in the accounts. Occasionally one may sponsor another employee's upgrade, or redeem an award ticket for friend/family.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
Last week all our employee accounts were closed in a sudden. Only one employee received a warning email from United, saying that the accounts were managed by a single person and that was a violation of the MP rules. A total of about 10-12 employee accounts were all closed and miles confiscated without any warning. When I called MP customer service to ask, the agent said that she could not do anything about it. This is just mad! I look like a fool recommending our employees to fly united because of "better" FF program.
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,809
How did they figure out this was the case I wonder? Was there a lot of activity between accounts?
I typically help manage my wife's, 2 kids and in laws at times accounts, basically because they don't have interest in it and understand all the processes. I sometimes sponsor them with miles and upgrades though not the other way around. Certainly hope this isn't an issue?
I typically help manage my wife's, 2 kids and in laws at times accounts, basically because they don't have interest in it and understand all the processes. I sometimes sponsor them with miles and upgrades though not the other way around. Certainly hope this isn't an issue?
Now, having said that, UA might understandably want to draw a line for situations such as the OP's (though even then it might be kind of petty). But in that case, what would be ethical, appropriate and simply good business would be for UA to advise the MP members that in the future it will close accounts and/or deduct miles if the practice of having a colleague manage their accounts continues. To simply cut them off this way is ridiculous.
OP, I'd try to escalate this any way I could, including informing UA of how much $$ it stands to lose if it does not reverse this move, writing to Smisek (I believe some threads here have his email) and other UA executives, and informing UA that you will post/contact as many travel and complaint websites and publications as possible (and then doing so if necessary). You could offer to desist from this dastardly practice if UA restores the accounts and miles.
Hope it all works out.
#14
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Plat, HH Diamond, MR Gold, Hertz Prez Circle
Posts: 572
You're making quite a leap. While that is in the realm of possibility, I take the OP's statement at face value that he served only as a delegate to help manage the respective employees' accounts, not that he was using the accounts to his or his business's benefit.
Agree that it is likely the section that sbm12 quoted which is the relevant passage in this case, as it explicitly states that "Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information" and that "No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party."
Of course, I'm also technically in violation of that provision, as I manage my kids' accounts (they're 6 and 8 - they couldn't care less that they even HAVE accounts, lol), and sometimes my wife's and in-laws' online accounts.
Agree that it is likely the section that sbm12 quoted which is the relevant passage in this case, as it explicitly states that "Only the member named on the account will be entitled access to account information" and that "No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party."
Of course, I'm also technically in violation of that provision, as I manage my kids' accounts (they're 6 and 8 - they couldn't care less that they even HAVE accounts, lol), and sometimes my wife's and in-laws' online accounts.
The irony is they would fly me more for work on those forfeited award miles with the new found gains in travel budget lol.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,757
No member may delegate or grant access (via power of attorney, contract, or otherwise) to a third party.