MP Accounts Closed by UA Alleging Fraud/Misuse
May 29, 2017, 5:15 am
#946
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Breakage.
Industry-wide, 40% of these sorts of vouchers, credits, and other funny-money go unused. I can't speak to OP or his specific cert, but enterprise-wide, that nets out to $75. The $50, on average, is not breakage if people can convert these to cash.
All of the suggestions about how to get reinstated or to commit further fraud after the ban are music to the ears of the UA (and other carrier) marketers. Goes to prove their theory that they can boot someone from GS to nothing, strip him of his miles, and put him in a position where he boards last, pays for bags, and so on, and the guy still comes groveling back.
Industry-wide, 40% of these sorts of vouchers, credits, and other funny-money go unused. I can't speak to OP or his specific cert, but enterprise-wide, that nets out to $75. The $50, on average, is not breakage if people can convert these to cash.
All of the suggestions about how to get reinstated or to commit further fraud after the ban are music to the ears of the UA (and other carrier) marketers. Goes to prove their theory that they can boot someone from GS to nothing, strip him of his miles, and put him in a position where he boards last, pays for bags, and so on, and the guy still comes groveling back.
May 29, 2017, 6:07 am
#947
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: UA-1K MM, AA-Gold, DL-Silver, AS-MVP
Posts: 2,509
OP can still spend and fly on UA. OP can still collect miles/status on another *A program, only thing OP can't do is collect miles/status on UA MP program.
May 29, 2017, 6:54 am
#948
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Air carrier fraud detection software is a whole lot more sophisticated than it was even 3-4 years ago. It's not just eCerts on eBay, but everything from the sale of miles or award tickets to duplicate bookings, to repeat refunding of tickets and other conduct which ranges from petty to major fraud.
Some of the "catches" are fairly stark for those contemplating further fraud by reestablishing a new account. For instance, gifting award tickets to people who have received multiple tickets from others with whom they have no connection.
The notion that someone who has been shut down will be able to readily recreate his digital identity once he is already flagged, is close to laughable.
It also proves that for those who say that UA is costing itself an HVC, it is not. Someone who has been just about fired by UA --- he can still fly --- begging and then committing further fraud to get back into the program and carrier he has just bashed, is hardly a revenue loss.
Some of the "catches" are fairly stark for those contemplating further fraud by reestablishing a new account. For instance, gifting award tickets to people who have received multiple tickets from others with whom they have no connection.
The notion that someone who has been shut down will be able to readily recreate his digital identity once he is already flagged, is close to laughable.
It also proves that for those who say that UA is costing itself an HVC, it is not. Someone who has been just about fired by UA --- he can still fly --- begging and then committing further fraud to get back into the program and carrier he has just bashed, is hardly a revenue loss.
May 29, 2017, 7:09 am
#949
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,671
Yes, but it's not actively checked and verified. If one flies international, the only time it would be corrected is if an agent notices at check-in and manually updates it.
Before pre-check, during the "at-war" years many of us had with the TSA, we regularly entered false birthdates to mess with their database without any repercussion.
Before pre-check, during the "at-war" years many of us had with the TSA, we regularly entered false birthdates to mess with their database without any repercussion.
Exactly - some are asking for leniency for a "minor" infraction. But everyone in the industry is doing the same thing, there is no in-between. The present value of $50k/year HVF spend for the next 20 years is only around $630k, given the size of UA, I think UA can take the hit.
Seems like that would be harsh enough to scare off others but still allow the airlines to earn revenue from a HVF.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 29, 2017 at 11:20 am Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member -- please use multi-quote
May 29, 2017, 7:44 am
#950
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA GS 1.7MM, Hyatt Lifetime Glob, Marriott Titanium/Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 1,272
Apologies if this is covered already - just discovered this thread and it's tough to go through all the posts. If it's against program rules to cell UA's certs and eBay cooperates with UA, why doesn't eBay simply not allow these types of listings? 
May 29, 2017, 8:10 am
#951
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
And, unrelated, but not widely known; that different airline's FF programs departments that deal with these issues do share info with each other, especially in the cases of recidivist or particularly flagrant offenders.
T'was a time as well that AA had an FT identity and used it to round up a lot of traders in coupon connection. No idea if UA has ever flirted with that. But these analysts/investigators "are everywhere," to varying degrees.
May 29, 2017, 8:20 am
#952
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
Also, as I have posted many times over the years, it is a crime, at least in California (although I don't know of anyone who has ever been prosecuted).
May 29, 2017, 8:39 am
#953
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,893
I've been reading lots of the reactions and advice here, and am familiar with thee stories, but two things struck me just now.
1. It didn't used to be this way. UA turned a relatively blind eye to certificate sales. There were only occasional stories of infractions, and they were limited to the really big ones where many (dozens?) of certificates were for sale.
1. It didn't used to be this way. UA turned a relatively blind eye to certificate sales. There were only occasional stories of infractions, and they were limited to the really big ones where many (dozens?) of certificates were for sale.
The letter came and was a final warning. His account had been frozen and if he signed and returned the enclosed admission (of guilt) letter within seven days and promised never to do it again his account would be reinstated. If the letter was not received within seven days the account and its contents would be wiped out and he would be banned from rejoining. Needless to say he signed right away.
So 25 years ago the reaction was only a tad softer than today.
This does not surprise me in the least. There are many industries where competitors share information on people/parties they suspect of perpetuating fraud or theft.
May 29, 2017, 8:54 am
#954
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: DL, UA, SPG, HH
Posts: 113
A fool is one who thinks there's isn't a UA cheese eater among us.
May 29, 2017, 9:15 am
#955
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: When not traveling, Boulder,CO
Programs: united premier exec, hhonors diamond, priority club platinum elite
Posts: 43
Guess someone learned that Aviation takes rules seriously. When you screw up there is NO recourse....[Moderator edit.]
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; May 29, 2017 at 9:42 am Reason: Per FT Rule 12: to edit unduly personalized text.
Jun 1, 2017, 2:08 pm
#956
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: COS
Programs: UA Gold/1.5MM (several years running now!), Marriott LTTE, Hertz Prez
Posts: 1,899
Air carrier fraud detection software is a whole lot more sophisticated than it was even 3-4 years ago. It's not just eCerts on eBay, but everything from the sale of miles or award tickets to duplicate bookings, to repeat refunding of tickets and other conduct which ranges from petty to major fraud.
Jun 1, 2017, 3:10 pm
#957
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
I can't find the thread, but there was a GS who was booking himself and his wife separate tickets--hers refundable--so she could accompany him to the gate to help deal with his fear of flying, and then canceling/refunding hers just before departure. UA kicked him out of Mileage Plus. And note that UA can kick you out for reasons other than fraud, such as if they simply decide you are more trouble than you're worth revenue-wise.
Jun 1, 2017, 3:26 pm
#959
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: COS
Programs: UA Gold/1.5MM (several years running now!), Marriott LTTE, Hertz Prez
Posts: 1,899
I can't find the thread, but there was a GS who was booking himself and his wife separate tickets--hers refundable--so she could accompany him to the gate to help deal with his fear of flying, and then canceling/refunding hers just before departure. UA kicked him out of Mileage Plus.
Thanks much.
My cancellation rate is higher than yours, and I've been doing it for quite some time, so I doubt you have much of anything to worry about.
Jun 1, 2017, 3:47 pm
#960
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: YVR, HNL
Programs: AS 75k, UA peon, BA Bronze, AC E50k, Marriott Plat, HH Diamond, Fairmont Plat (RIP)
Posts: 7,834
I can't find the thread, but there was a GS who was booking himself and his wife separate tickets--hers refundable--so she could accompany him to the gate to help deal with his fear of flying, and then canceling/refunding hers just before departure. UA kicked him out of Mileage Plus. And note that UA can kick you out for reasons other than fraud, such as if they simply decide you are more trouble than you're worth revenue-wise.