BrianTRaine

All, Thanks for the input, appreciate it.

In January time frame I listed and sold a GPU on Craigslist. I reviewed the GPU rule page and there was nothing in the page restricting this, in fact they say they are fully transferrable!

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...wupgrades.aspx
"Global Premier Upgrades are fully transferable and may be used for travel with or without the earning Premier member"

There isn't a link to any other rules governing the use so I hadn't seen rule 10 in the overall mileage-plus rules.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...s/default.aspx
transfer of any mileage, certificates, awards, benefits or status, other than as authorized and/or sponsored by United, is expressly prohibited


I'm sure the MPCompliance is referring to this incident. Has there been any members who have been able to resolve this with United?

ermintrude

Yes but I believe some (many?) people innocently break the rules of MP. Members of my own family have asked me and more importantly agents about doing things which would make many of us on FT cringe; obviously not understanding the implications.

Outside of the people who follow FT, how many people read the MP rules and understand the implications of breaking them? I would think few.

The punishment often far outweighs the crime, particularly regarding the zero tolerance policy on some infractions.

I think it would be good all round if UA typically gave a big slap on the hand to those who break the rules (but don't appear to be gaming the system) rather than going nuclear.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

In United's (corporate) mind, the punishment does not outweigh the crime, and that's what counts. The rules aren't a secret, and neither is the potential punishment. If the offenders get to decide what the punishment ought to be, might as well have no rules.

At the end of the day, United gives us a revocable right-to-use a certain number of miles/certificates/whatever. We get to use them as long as we follow their rules. If one doesn't want to follow the rules, too bad.

NH_Clark

+1

mahasamatman

They are fully transferable as long as there is no remuneration. The program T&C are very clear about this in several places. You agreed to follow the T&C when you signed up for the program. If you didn't read and understand them, you really have nobody else to blame.

By your own admission, you violated the terms of the program. I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

Kacee

Where the conduct is open to question, UA will typically freeze the account while they investigate. A full monty account closure, miles forfeiture, and downgrading of booked flights suggests they had compelling evidence of a violation.

ermintrude

If one doesn't realize that general members mostly don't read these rules they've been spending too much time on FT.

Who is suggesting that?

Kacee

I suspect that UA will find it difficult to believe that a GS with nearly 1M UA miles thought the sale of upgrade instruments was allowed.

The usual advice in these situations is that the only hope of reinstatement is if you come clean and ask forgiveness rather than pleading innocence. Given the actions that UA has already taken in your case, I would guess that's a real long shot.

Baze

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse as ignorance of the law is no excuse. When you sign up for MP you agree to the rules whether you read them or not.

N104UA

Your only option now is to fess up to what you did and ask UA for forgiveness and promise to never do that again, maybe just maybe they might listen.

hughw

Observations...
1. it's interesting how often that someone who runs into serious issues is a first time poster, often with substantial mileage and status. How do they all of a sudden find this forum, or have they been lurking without posting all along.
2. We'll never know, because most people don't post here, but I'm wondering how many people a year are terminated. less than 100? thousands? ten thousands?
3. And it would be interesting to know how many people are warned vs. terminated. Even in a criminal case, many first time offenders get off with some kind of lighter sentence rather than the book being thrown at them. One would think that the value of a GS to United's bottom line vs. the sale of something that's not worth much to United (other than the integrity of the program) would cause them to go soft initially.
4. Wouldn't it be funny if very few people are actually terminated, but United posts "fake news) or rather, makes fake postings showing how draconian they are in order to scare us all into compliance.

ani90

Even Elite members would almost as a rule not have read the rules. After all the OP was GS, as have several previous in this thread and seems unaware of the rules. People have more pressing things to do than to read T and C for all loyalty programs (airline, hotel, car rental, supermarket, etc) they belong to. The airlines know this so they have all kind of phraseology in there, such that the errant member will be maximally vulnerable if and when airline decides to wield the axe. It is a lose lose situation for a member once you 'break' or, even worse, 'abuse' the rules as UA has great latitude in defining what abuse means. Even overutilization of program or ticketed class benefits has been claimed to have been basis to shut down accounts in the past.

Legally true, but harsh. Most outside FT have not read these T and C. Indeed I have been 1K several years and have neither read nor ever plan to read these. There are more important things in life than T an C of mileage plus, and if my account is closed one day because I did not read small print (or large print) then so be it and life moves on...

Then UA is in their own small world. Logically, there is no reason to believe sale of upgrade instruments or miles would not be allowed. It is somewhat an anomaly, that something you earn and can use to trade for goods does not actually belong to you. I suppose maybe somewhere in the small print all dollar bills may well belong to treasury and the US government can one day take away all your money - who knows....

Unless one has read the T an C (which will be the minority) or followed FT or such forums, or heard from other more savvy FF, it is unlikely that one would know that selling one's instruments was prohibited. And even for those who have read the T and C they may think that they are interpreted in literal fashion, but that is not the case (hence those who claim they are selling advice and not the GPU, an argument that may work if lawyers or courts are interpreting the rules, but of course UA doesn't have to bother about lawyers as the MP account belongs to them and they are empowered to close it for any reason they choose).

I do not condone or excuse the selling of instruments, nor do I suggest offenders should not be punished, but I support what some have said that some likely innocently broke the rules without knowing (that what they were doing was against the T and C).

Kacee

I would call that illogic.

I think exactly the opposite is true . . . most program members have a sense that the sale of benefits is against the rules, even though they likely have not ever read the T&C.

That's part of the reason why these "my account has been shut-down" posts are so rare.

Ari

Thanks for coming back and posting. I am afraid your firm belief was indeed mistaken as you can now see. I don't think you'll find advice here on how to mitigate United's fraud department's ire. There don't seem to be any reports around here from people who have gotten out from under this sort of thing by pleading ignorance, so I'd probably skip that. I have heard reports that some loyalty programs will let you start from zero after x time if you beg them, but I haven't heard such a report about MileagePlus-- not recently anyway.

ani90

Agree it is illogic in our small world of flyertalk, but I suspect the majority of flyers, who don't see the world through our (flyertalk) lenses will find this more difficult to comprehend

Won't surprise me that if such cases did exist that UA would have made it a condition that the restored member does not make such action known in public forum, such as FT