How many are REALLY leaving UA? [2014 edition]
Feb 18, 2014, 12:12 pm
#286
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, UA1K/2MM, Marriott Platinum Premier Lifetime
Posts: 357
Finally pulled the trigger today, went for the status match to AA. Tried to ride it out, but United has become so penny wise and pound foolish, that I could not tolerate it any longer. Hard to sum up what made me finally pull the trigger, I think just a series of tiny things adding up. We'll see what happens on AA, but at least until UA changes the program, will always have gold status.
AA's irrops are definitely much worse on trying to find another flight to get on, but when things are running smoothly it really does beat anything COdbaUA has to offer.
While I am based in Chicago I have no problem flying to DFW to make connections to Europe in an effort to avoid London if I can. I do mis the nonstops that were offered, but to me the better service is well worth the time.
Good luck to ya.
Feb 18, 2014, 12:16 pm
#287
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I could see a disgruntled elite saying "That's it - I'm going to XX." I have a hard time believing ANYONE is jumping to UA.
Ok, well, in any significant numbers. :P I have a hard time believing that UA's customer churning is moving them toward a net increase in customers.
Ok, well, in any significant numbers. :P I have a hard time believing that UA's customer churning is moving them toward a net increase in customers.
Yes, there is clearly always some churn, but UAL is net losing High Value passengers, and in very large numbers. For UAL to continue, three years into the merger, to be falling further behind in yield, particularly given it has the strongest network by far in 2013 and met its 80% OT goal, says that the thesis that as many are unhappy/leaving delta/aa/us, is simply wrong..
Feb 18, 2014, 12:22 pm
#288
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: UA GS/1K x6yrs, Ex-AAExecPlat, Delta 360, Mariott Plat, Hyatt Diamond, AMEX Centurion, Avis First
Posts: 165
I will be getting a tax deduction for the donation so its not altogether altruistic
I particularly loved the letter that I was sent ... Something to the effect of "although your travel over 2013 didn't justify it, we'll do you the favor of only demoting you to 1K. You really should be a much lower elite" ... to think that someone was actually paid to craft that letter, that it got approved and that it then got sent out without anyone at CO thinking "hey, this may be taken as obnoxious" is telling about the culture ... $mi$ek can kiss my $$ goodbye
Ditto ... the hard and soft products are qualitatively different ... how many times have you gotten in the F cabin on UA only to find *actual pieces* of the interior damaged, hanging, loosely attached, dirty? ... think those FAs are happy? ask for refill, or better yet try getting their attention outside of using semaphore ;-)
Last edited by iluv2fly; Feb 18, 2014 at 1:26 pm Reason: merge
Feb 18, 2014, 12:34 pm
#289
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Yes, there is clearly always some churn, but UAL is net losing High Value passengers, and in very large numbers. For UAL to continue, three years into the merger, to be falling further behind in yield, particularly given it has the strongest network by far in 2013 and met its 80% OT goal, says that the thesis that as many are unhappy/leaving delta/aa/us, is simply wrong..
There is just no need for that.
Feb 18, 2014, 1:25 pm
#290
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: One hour from major airport
Programs: United silver, American Platinum, Marriott platinum, Starwood Gold, Hertz gold, Avis First
Posts: 72
I did intend to have no status on United for 2014 and forward. However, it didn't work out that way. Not because I actually FLY on UA, but because I'm a Marriott Platinum and get UA silver for free. I just hope never to use it.
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
UA had better seating (economy plus), frequent upgrades, and when the upgrades didn't happen, I usually had room next to me or an easy exit row. The UA program was pretty easy to redeem flights for where I wanted to go. Service was acceptable and being ORD based meant I had plenty of flights to choose from.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
Flight cuts and the use of smaller aircraft immediately reduced all the per flight benefits I used to enjoy. United failed to upgrade its service as other airlines caught up to their benefits, making the product not nearly as much a no-brainer.
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Nothing - I stopped revenue flying on UA in 2013.
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
I have switched to AA. Currently Platinum.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
WiFi on every flight. Comparable comfort to UA planes. Ability to choose the seat I WANT, not the one I'm allowed to take. Bins that fit my luggage correctly on every aircraft, rather than hit or miss on UA.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
Less flight choice, however I find the efficiency of being able to work enroute more than makes up for the occasional scheduling challenge.
1) What did you like most about fkaUA or fkaCO?
UA had better seating (economy plus), frequent upgrades, and when the upgrades didn't happen, I usually had room next to me or an easy exit row. The UA program was pretty easy to redeem flights for where I wanted to go. Service was acceptable and being ORD based meant I had plenty of flights to choose from.
2) What changes have had the greatest negative impact on you?
Flight cuts and the use of smaller aircraft immediately reduced all the per flight benefits I used to enjoy. United failed to upgrade its service as other airlines caught up to their benefits, making the product not nearly as much a no-brainer.
3) What remains about the current UA that makes it hard for you to leave?
Nothing - I stopped revenue flying on UA in 2013.
4) What airlines are you considering switching to? Or kayaking?
I have switched to AA. Currently Platinum.
5) What benefits / improvements do you expect on your new airline?
WiFi on every flight. Comparable comfort to UA planes. Ability to choose the seat I WANT, not the one I'm allowed to take. Bins that fit my luggage correctly on every aircraft, rather than hit or miss on UA.
6) What aspects of the new airline make it hard for you to switch to them?
Less flight choice, however I find the efficiency of being able to work enroute more than makes up for the occasional scheduling challenge.
Feb 18, 2014, 5:14 pm
#291
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1K, million miler, Marriott Platinum, AA
Posts: 64
Feb 18, 2014, 9:57 pm
#292
Original Member, Ambassador: External Miles and Points Resources
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Digital Nomad Wandering the Earth - Currently in LIMA, PERU
Posts: 58,626
Dear United 1k Voice:
I am kokonutz, MP# xyz. My wife is I012609, MP# zyx.
Thank you for comping both me and my wife from Platinum/million miler status to 1K status for approximately 3 months this winter based on our buying first class USAirways tickets last year. After ending our loyalty to United after 15 and 10 years as 1Ks respectively, we thought it was great that you were trying to win our paid premium class business back.
I wanted to let you know why we will not be coming back to total loyalty to United Airlines.
Today (2/18/14) my wife and I were on paid business class tickets SAL-IAH-DCA. We could have taken a nonstop SAL-IAD for the same price in first class on TACA. Had you not comped us 1K status we would have taken the nonstop on TACA based on our experiences ever since United and Continental merged. But we figured: hey, United comped us 1K status. We’ll get special treatment. Let’s go ahead and connect through Houston.
United 1541 IAH-DCA had 12 FC seats on a former Continental 737 with 3 rows in F.
Sitting in 2A and B, the flight attendant was taking orders for dinner and got to us and said that, of the cheeseburger or cold chicken salad, only cold chicken salad was available.
My wife asked: ‘How do you prioritize meal order? Just curious.’
Flight Attendant: ‘Unfortunately I have to go by Mileage Plus status. So sorry. They only gave us 5 cheeseburgers. And I don’t have any left.’
‘Interesting,’ my wife says, ‘We’re both 1ks on paid first class fares.’
FA looks at manifest. Stares at my wife for 5 or 10 seconds, then says, with a dour, bordering on angry attitude, ‘would you like a cheeseburger?’
‘Yes,’ my wife says.
‘And what would you like,’ she said to me with an equally dour bordering on angry attitude.
‘Look,’ I say, ‘I’ll take the chicken salad just to make your life easier since you’ve already promised everyone before us a cheeseburger. But I’m not happy about it.’
When she moved on, my wife and I looked at each other and agreed: next time we buy the TACA nonstop.
United, even as a 1K on a paid business class fare, just doesn’t make sense when the former CO employees won’t even follow SOPs to give full fare 1Ks promised benefits, and instead give us attitude when we insist on them. Why should we pay premium fares for randomly inconsistent service!?
Yeah, you lost us (again) over a cheeseburger. Crazy. But much more than that, you lost us by failing to meet the basic expectations that you set for your ‘top tier’ customers. As buyers of premium class tickets we’ve actually become huge fans of the AA pre-order meal system. Honestly, if it had been between TACA, UA and AA, we’d have done AA even though we have no status on AA. At least then we’d have gotten the dinner we wanted...and without the attitude.
It’s really quite sad. We used to go out of our way to fly UA. Now every time we fly UA in paid business we are disappointed because United consistently fails to meet the expectation it sets for elites.
I'm not seeking compensation or anything like that. Just letting you know why comping us 1K status is not going to bring us back to loyalty to United as we continue to buy business class tickets on every flight. And why we are more likely to fly on AA rather than UA if the business class fares are similar.
I am kokonutz, MP# xyz. My wife is I012609, MP# zyx.
Thank you for comping both me and my wife from Platinum/million miler status to 1K status for approximately 3 months this winter based on our buying first class USAirways tickets last year. After ending our loyalty to United after 15 and 10 years as 1Ks respectively, we thought it was great that you were trying to win our paid premium class business back.
I wanted to let you know why we will not be coming back to total loyalty to United Airlines.
Today (2/18/14) my wife and I were on paid business class tickets SAL-IAH-DCA. We could have taken a nonstop SAL-IAD for the same price in first class on TACA. Had you not comped us 1K status we would have taken the nonstop on TACA based on our experiences ever since United and Continental merged. But we figured: hey, United comped us 1K status. We’ll get special treatment. Let’s go ahead and connect through Houston.
United 1541 IAH-DCA had 12 FC seats on a former Continental 737 with 3 rows in F.
Sitting in 2A and B, the flight attendant was taking orders for dinner and got to us and said that, of the cheeseburger or cold chicken salad, only cold chicken salad was available.
My wife asked: ‘How do you prioritize meal order? Just curious.’
Flight Attendant: ‘Unfortunately I have to go by Mileage Plus status. So sorry. They only gave us 5 cheeseburgers. And I don’t have any left.’
‘Interesting,’ my wife says, ‘We’re both 1ks on paid first class fares.’
FA looks at manifest. Stares at my wife for 5 or 10 seconds, then says, with a dour, bordering on angry attitude, ‘would you like a cheeseburger?’
‘Yes,’ my wife says.
‘And what would you like,’ she said to me with an equally dour bordering on angry attitude.
‘Look,’ I say, ‘I’ll take the chicken salad just to make your life easier since you’ve already promised everyone before us a cheeseburger. But I’m not happy about it.’
When she moved on, my wife and I looked at each other and agreed: next time we buy the TACA nonstop.
United, even as a 1K on a paid business class fare, just doesn’t make sense when the former CO employees won’t even follow SOPs to give full fare 1Ks promised benefits, and instead give us attitude when we insist on them. Why should we pay premium fares for randomly inconsistent service!?
Yeah, you lost us (again) over a cheeseburger. Crazy. But much more than that, you lost us by failing to meet the basic expectations that you set for your ‘top tier’ customers. As buyers of premium class tickets we’ve actually become huge fans of the AA pre-order meal system. Honestly, if it had been between TACA, UA and AA, we’d have done AA even though we have no status on AA. At least then we’d have gotten the dinner we wanted...and without the attitude.
It’s really quite sad. We used to go out of our way to fly UA. Now every time we fly UA in paid business we are disappointed because United consistently fails to meet the expectation it sets for elites.
I'm not seeking compensation or anything like that. Just letting you know why comping us 1K status is not going to bring us back to loyalty to United as we continue to buy business class tickets on every flight. And why we are more likely to fly on AA rather than UA if the business class fares are similar.
Feb 18, 2014, 10:53 pm
#293
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Every single thing UA does at the moment is as you mention. The general consensus is that if they can take an upgrade off a 1k or a GS and charge a kettle $7 dollars for it, then that's what they will do. Then they do the math of even just one of these "purchases" happening times 5000 odd flights per day. Thats:
$7 x 5000 = $35,000
$35,000 x 365 days = $12,775,000
They'd rather have the $12 million than the GS
$7 x 5000 = $35,000
$35,000 x 365 days = $12,775,000
They'd rather have the $12 million than the GS
Feb 18, 2014, 11:05 pm
#294
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Every single thing UA does at the moment is as you mention. The general consensus is that if they can take an upgrade off a 1k or a GS and charge a kettle $7 dollars for it, then that's what they will do. Then they do the math of even just one of these "purchases" happening times 5000 odd flights per day. Thats:
$7 x 5000 = $35,000
$35,000 x 365 days = $12,775,000
They'd rather have the $12 million than the GS
$7 x 5000 = $35,000
$35,000 x 365 days = $12,775,000
They'd rather have the $12 million than the GS
Feb 18, 2014, 11:14 pm
#295
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
And if 1 in 10 of the GS (500) leave because they are fed up they and those GS averaged $50K apiece that is a loss of $25,000,000. Hmmm, lose $25,000,000 to gain $12,775,000. Even if it is 1 in 20 GS (250) leave that would be a loss of $12,500,000 so they really only gain $225,000. Not good economical sense.
What's crazy is that Delta is doing the opposite in almost every situation, and is destroying United in every metric, and in profit , yet no one at UA seems to have the wherewithal to notice what's going on..
Feb 19, 2014, 12:58 am
#296
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I'm agreeing with you. Their choices all seem really short sighted. Cut pillows, saves $.50 per flight and costs them passengers. Cut an olive off a salad, save 12 cents, lose passengers. No inflight entertainment or wifi, or FC seats, save some install costs, lose passengers. Charge for drinks etc
What's crazy is that Delta is doing the opposite in almost every situation, and is destroying United in every metric, and in profit , yet no one at UA seems to have the wherewithal to notice what's going on..
What's crazy is that Delta is doing the opposite in almost every situation, and is destroying United in every metric, and in profit , yet no one at UA seems to have the wherewithal to notice what's going on..
If the reports on this board are true, there is an entirely new wave of folks that left UAL at year end, and the 1Q 2014 numbers will be interesting...
Feb 19, 2014, 5:41 am
#297
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Goodbye, United.
United have made a choice to have an inferior product. Even the new 175's will be dark. Delta has wifi on these. United have decided not to have anything on them. World's leading airline LOL. Spend 5 min reading the comments to @united on twitter. Any 5 min will do. It's a nonstop bloodbath round the clock. Some on here will say it's no big deal, but like the other forums on here, UA gets a significant bump in complaints and vitriol over the others. There is a hole in the UA bucket and they are going through passengers at a rapid rate. Kettles may chose by lowest price on first go, but they'll avoid UA at all costs on the second time around.
Feb 19, 2014, 6:20 am
#298
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
Kokonutz - did you get a response from 1KVoice?
Two years into the merger, and UA still can't deliver a consistent product across the breadth of the airline, even on simple things like taking meal orders and offering PDBs. Sad, when you think about it.
Two years into the merger, and UA still can't deliver a consistent product across the breadth of the airline, even on simple things like taking meal orders and offering PDBs. Sad, when you think about it.
Feb 19, 2014, 6:25 am
#299
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midwest
Programs: Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 261
I enjoy reading flyertalk regularly (daily) for the tips I learn, the heads up we often get about what's coming down the line (i.e. enforcement of carry on rules) and, yes, even the complaints. It's good to get a sense of what is bothering people. But flyertalk seems like an alternate universe to me because when I fly UA I rarely have any complaints at all. Sure, I get the occasional broken F seat or boarding problem, but nothing that would cause me to vent such vitriol as some of the people here do. I admit that UA isn't what it used to be, but what is? I don't like all the RJs, that's for sure. But overall I'm still quite happy and am treated very well. My actual flying experience doesn't match up with a lot of what is said here, and I find that interesting.
Feb 19, 2014, 7:16 am
#300
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
I agree, and my experiences for the most part have been good, but when you open your eyes (general comment, not your eyes), you see that the competition is offering a significantly better experience in more or less all areas. It's frustrating to see the airlines that you invested your money in make what just seem to be the most utterly ridiculous anti-customer choices