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Upgrade Shenanigans? [Consolidated]

Old Apr 5, 2022, 12:35 pm
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by physioprof
I don't understand why it is so much less infuriating to fail to get an upgrade bcs a premium cabin seat is occupied by an ordinary flier who pays for it with their own cash or miles, than when the seat is occupied by a deadheading pilot whose seat is paid for by their employer. Like I really don't understand how these two scenarios garner such different emotional reactions.
Well, this is FT....
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 1:17 pm
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by bmwe92fan
Well, this is FT....
It stands to reason that most people have this belief that airline employees should ALWAYS come second to a paying customer. Never mind the fact that its a contractual benefit in this situation. If an open seat in F goes to anyone wearing a pair of wings, heads will roll. The conspiracy that airline employees screw people out of upgrades is pretty much non-existent these days because everything is automated and elite upgrades are processed first. But think about someone going into Arby's/Chick-fil-A/Burger King etc. and being upset that an employee is eating a meal on their break that they are comped....and subsequently whining about it. Never mind that the employee works there or has the benefit; should I walk out with a stack full of free beef-n-cheddars* just because I frequent Arby's all the time? F upgrades are a really nice perk....sometimes I get them, sometimes like a fool I spend $500 to grab the last seat.

*disclaimer-not sure why beef-n-cheddars, or Arby's for that matter were on my mind, I've never had one....but there is an Arby's about a mile away and for some reason it came to mind.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 1:30 pm
  #123  
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So many ways to miss a UA upgrade, I don't sweat the details, because I am constantly reminded that UA is a WFBF airline.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 1:49 pm
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee
So many ways to miss a UA upgrade, I don't sweat the details, because I am constantly reminded that UA is a WFBF airline.
I mean...isn't that true of every airline? Does anyone guarantee that you'll get more than you paid for? It's no different with hotels and upgrades to suites... Rental cars are perhaps the one area where I can see someone legitimately conditioned to expect "more" than they're paying for... but that's also because rental cars are largely a fungible commodity...sure there are some makes/models I enjoy driving a bit more, but at the end of the day as long as it has four wheels, a form of propulsion, and ideally a fully enclosed passenger compartment....
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 2:15 pm
  #125  
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Originally Posted by qukslvr619
It stands to reason that most people have this belief that airline employees should ALWAYS come second to a paying customer. Never mind the fact that its a contractual benefit in this situation. If an open seat in F goes to anyone wearing a pair of wings, heads will roll. The conspiracy that airline employees screw people out of upgrades is pretty much non-existent these days because everything is automated and elite upgrades are processed first. But think about someone going into Arby's/Chick-fil-A/Burger King etc. and being upset that an employee is eating a meal on their break that they are comped....and subsequently whining about it. Never mind that the employee works there or has the benefit; should I walk out with a stack full of free beef-n-cheddars* just because I frequent Arby's all the time? F upgrades are a really nice perk....sometimes I get them, sometimes like a fool I spend $500 to grab the last seat.

*disclaimer-not sure why beef-n-cheddars, or Arby's for that matter were on my mind, I've never had one....but there is an Arby's about a mile away and for some reason it came to mind.
There is no comparison between a fast food worker getting a free meal and a paying customer losing an upgrade because of an employee being upgraded - this is no comparison. A customer doesn't lose anything when an employee at Burger King eats a meal - but they do lose when an employee is prioritized. I'm sorry but employees should never be prioritized over paying customers under any circumstances. I just read recent news that the FAs demanded to be seated in PP instead of Y+, and thankfully an arbitrator told them to go pound sand.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 2:32 pm
  #126  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I just read recent news that the FAs demanded to be seated in PP instead of Y+, and thankfully an arbitrator told them to go pound sand.
That was a dispute about the interpretation of contractual language that was written before the PP product even existed.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 2:32 pm
  #127  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
There is no comparison between a fast food worker getting a free meal and a paying customer losing an upgrade because of an employee being upgraded - this is no comparison. A customer doesn't lose anything when an employee at Burger King eats a meal - but they do lose when an employee is prioritized. I'm sorry but employees should never be prioritized over paying customers under any circumstances. I just read recent news that the FAs demanded to be seated in PP instead of Y+, and thankfully an arbitrator told them to go pound sand.
We can agree to disagree, but the current contractual reality is that deadheading (not commuting) pilots have the right to an available F seat ahead of any customers waiting for an upgrade. Thus, when that happens it is neither wrong nor a shenanigan.

You (or a "UA Passenger Union" should one ever exist) can definitely lobby for an alternate prioritization, but until that happens -- and I have to image that UA's pilots have a bigger stick to wield for contractual negotiations.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 2:44 pm
  #128  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I'm sorry but employees should never be prioritized over paying customers under any circumstances.
The pilot sitting in F is a paying customer - in this case, UA is the one doing the paying. No different than if my employer pays for my seat on business travel.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 2:55 pm
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
There is no comparison between a fast food worker getting a free meal and a paying customer losing an upgrade because of an employee being upgraded - this is no comparison. A customer doesn't lose anything when an employee at Burger King eats a meal - but they do lose when an employee is prioritized. I'm sorry but employees should never be prioritized over paying customers under any circumstances.
How dare the pilots get the seats on the flight deck or the flight attendants get to sit in jump seats. Those should be for passengers and the crew can just stay home and let the plane fly by itself when the plane is full and revenue passengers are at risk of being left behind.


To the point of the comparison between the fast-food worker and the deadheading crew member, you're right there is no comparison. The fast-food worker CHOSE to take his or her meal break at the place of employment. OTOH, the deadheading crew member was ASSIGNED to fly as a passenger on that flight as part of their job in order to get them to a place they need to be to do more work.

Last edited by BelmontRef; Apr 6, 2022 at 3:04 pm
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 6:05 pm
  #130  
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I just read recent news that the FAs demanded to be seated in PP instead of Y+, and thankfully an arbitrator told them to go pound sand.
Can you provide a cite to the arbitrator's decision so we can understand the context?

Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
The pilot sitting in F is a paying customer - in this case, UA is the one doing the paying. No different than if my employer pays for my seat on business travel.
EXACTLY. 99% of the time, those on FT who have a beef about UA employees legitimately being in F ahead of them need to bring that up with their employer, not UA.

If you don't have enough clout with your employer to negotiate F travel, that is not UA's issue. Reality Check: You just might not be as important as you think you are.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 6:17 pm
  #131  
 
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Originally Posted by Bear96
Can you provide a cite to the arbitrator's decision so we can understand the context?
I read about the decision here: https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2...um-plus-seats/

Quote: "The arbitrator came to the conclusion that neither the airline or union envisioned Premium Plus existing when the contract was negotiated which left a gap between the two sides. The union has told flight attendants that it attempted to secure the best available seats for its members but there was never any understanding that anything other than Economy Plus was up for offer. Therefore, United will not be required to offer Premium Plus."
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 6:24 pm
  #132  
 
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
A pilot on his way to an airport to actually fly should always be upgraded ahead of everyone else in my opinion. I want that pilot as rested and comfortable as possible
while thats always the "catch phrase", does this mean you would not fly on Southwest or Frontier if one of their pilots sat in coach before their next flight?
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 7:12 pm
  #133  
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Originally Posted by bmwe92fan
I read about the decision here: https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2...um-plus-seats/

Quote: "The arbitrator came to the conclusion that neither the airline or union envisioned Premium Plus existing when the contract was negotiated which left a gap between the two sides. The union has told flight attendants that it attempted to secure the best available seats for its members but there was never any understanding that anything other than Economy Plus was up for offer. Therefore, United will not be required to offer Premium Plus."
Thanks.
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Old Apr 6, 2022, 11:30 pm
  #134  
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Originally Posted by lincolnjkc
I mean...isn't that true of every airline? Does anyone guarantee that you'll get more than you paid for?
Who said "guaranty" an upgrade?

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a guaranty, but it's a fact that upgrades are significantly more difficult on UA than AS or AA.

My upgrade percentage on AS and AA is over 95% going back to early 2020. With both carriers I can book Y with a relatively high degree of confidence my upgrade will clear. That is so not true with UA, even when applying PlusPoints.

If it weren't for schedule, plus lie-flats to Hawaii, I wouldn't fly UA at all.
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Old Apr 7, 2022, 11:54 am
  #135  
 
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer
The pilot sitting in F is a paying customer - in this case, UA is the one doing the paying. No different than if my employer pays for my seat on business travel.
Exactly. It is very strange that this is apparently not obvious.
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