Driving by DCA

And now they want you to actually give them more money than you cost them.

That was always the goal of these incentive programs ("loyalty" is a marketing term). But too many people got too good at extracting more than they spent. So now there are changes.

travelinmanS

^ what do you think the actual cost is to UA for upgrading someone 6 times a year on int'l flights to an empty seat? A couple of hundred bucks at most, more likely around 10 bucks a trip. Certainly nowhere near the 10k required spend to get those certs. I don't think cost is the reason for these changes, it's purely revenue raising.

mgcsinc

R space can be had well before the flight, and doesn't represent a seat that would necessarily be empty.

mgcsinc

Are you saying that they would drop prices if there weren't upgrades to fill the space?

Nah.

IslandSkies

You talk as if you just give United 10k as pretty much pure profit and all you get in return is the upgrade. Um, I think a significant portion of that money was spent by the airline on overhead costs such as employees, aircraft, facilities, and other facets of running a business to provide the flights/services that you actually paid for to get the status in the first place.

Kacee

The direct "cost" to UA is the foregone revenue, either from the pax who upgraded instead of buying a premium seat or the other pax who might have paid more for that seat. This is counterbalanced somewhat by the increased sale of W fares. The analysis is really complex, however, because there are elements of changed customer behavior which are extremely difficult to quantify/calculate.

Also, I agree with mgcsinc, you can't assume that every seat given to an upgrade would have gone empty. IM would like to reach that result, but the science is inexact. When IM releases too much R space, UA is deprived of premium revenue. It definitely happens (I can recall, for example, a woman literally begging the agent to sell her two F seats at the gate in LIH. Of course there were none to sell her, the F cabin having already been filled through CPU's).

jackal

Like the increased revenue from a loyal customer who gives business to United in part because he/she receives upgrades (and/or who would withhold business from United if the upgrades stop coming). It's hard to quantify just how much that comes out to for any given seat, but it's a real factor.

Kacee

Absolutely. On the other hand, you're training elites to expect to sit in F without paying an F fare. That effect cuts the other way.

ozstamps

And how pray tell do you have ANY idea what my seat cost UA? How do you know my seat did not return a profit?

I flew plenty of times from SYD-USA and bought W and up fares - from HERE often double the lowest fare. I looked up one for friend yesterday and W to IAD was $US2,522.

And that USED to near guarantee a SWU/Global upgrade.

In recent years it did not.

We took B fares to IAD and UA sold upgrades to Kettles at check in and for $4000 we flew to USA sitting next to lots of folks who bought the $900 S/K/T cheapies.

So assuming everyone on FT takes mileage run K fares is very foolish.

DaviddesJ

It's pretty easy to understand why UA might not want to routinely give away its C seats to Australia for $800-1200 each way, plus a GPU that people value at only a few hundred bucks. This is the kind of change that's the difference between a profitable airline and an unprofitable one. They make these upgrades available sometimes, and you should count yourself lucky when you get them, or be willing to go out of your way and choose your travel dates when there is availability. For them to effectively mark down all of their C seats to $1000-1500 seems like poor business practice to me.

mre5765

Elite Maximizer purchases have a 016 ticket number. Not ambiguous enough for you? Savvy?

I'm sure the people on this thread who have it clear they are waiting have a plan B.

And by the way, I interpret the act of people who put simple phrases like "some people" in quotes as an insinuation that I am lying. Given that anyone who has read this thread knows otherwise, this reflects more on you than me. Best of luck with your business.

It is possible to juxtapose airline and profit in the same sentence? Who knew? I always thought the way to make a $1M in the airline biz was to start with $1B.

TommyC80

That is a very interesting point which I haven't considered before. I've wondered how the accelerator program would work in 2014, or if it would even exist going forward.

I think it would be very confusing to the general public to offer the premier maximizer but not have the spend count toward PQD.

Besides, revenue is revenue, right? What's the difference whether it comes from economy plus purchases, flights, or RDM/PQM purchases? Hell, I'd argue that the PQM purchases are a higher quality revenue stream than most. You have no direct costs, no balance sheet impacts, and you're providing "benefits" to a flyer who is admittedly on your planes less than someone of the equivalent tier who earned their status via BIS. I would incentivize people to make those PQM purchases by counting them toward PQD...

morelegroom

OK PQD for Dummies time

Quote from UA insider
Am I guaranteed 016 ticket stock and PQD if I purchase through United.com?
Yes, if it is an eligible United, United Express, Copa Airlines or MileagePlus partner-operated flight segment.

Ok what does "eligible" mean in this context? In particular I am buying A turkish air flight on United.com.

Flight: TK1861
Operated by Turkish Airlines.
Aircraft: Airbus A321
Fare Class: Economy (V)
Meal: Meal
No Special Meal Offered.
See On-Time Performance

Clincher

yes!

I am the MRunner that UA and hard working business fliers probably don't like. My wife and I both attained gold status for 2014 by flying 50k for $2,100.

So I don't like PQD but I understand why UA is doing it.

...Is there a glimmer of hope for 2015 and beyond for those spending $25k on a UA Chase card? Xyzzy may have given the only answer to that question :

I agree, chasing status is more futile today than pre June 2013

Xyzzy

What does that 016 ticket number represent and how does UA process the revenue? If you're talking about a B&C situation, is the ticket number different from that of the cancelled ticket? Either way, you must ask whether that ticket will be processed the same way any other ticket would -- resulting in that revenue cunting? Which fare component carries the maximizer revenue and how does that affect things? I don't think the answers are clear. So far we have zero details from UA about any of this minutia.