Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 28, 2013, 9:45 am
#2536
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,680
I really wonder...in an alternate universe, one where DL announced MQS (Medallion Qualifying Spend), what is the chance that UA calls it PQS instead of PQD? That would be telling.
Jun 28, 2013, 9:52 am
#2537
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SUV
Programs: UA *G MM
Posts: 7,018
I wonder if a PQD meter shows up if you have a foreign address?
Jun 28, 2013, 10:10 am
#2538
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
FT is a self-selected sample, obviously, but a pretty broad one nonetheless. There's a good-sized cohort here that likes PQD, and there's a slice of the community that seems to have boundless sympathy and support for UA, rationalizing every new move or development as great news. So it's not uniformly "hypersensitive and entitled."
Jun 28, 2013, 10:10 am
#2539
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Even in regards to the DL/NW program, Randy's wrong. While I would say DL's service and product has improved, SkyMiles certainly has not. I think most DL FF's would say SkyMiles has actually gotten far worse.
But even good service isn't necessarily needed for profitably. US's service and product is pretty bare bones, their network is far less reaching and frequent flyer program is nothing spectacular, but even still US is quite profitable.
Of course, the difference between US and UA, is that US has learned to control it's costs and run a reliable operations, UA has not figured those things out.
But even good service isn't necessarily needed for profitably. US's service and product is pretty bare bones, their network is far less reaching and frequent flyer program is nothing spectacular, but even still US is quite profitable.
Of course, the difference between US and UA, is that US has learned to control it's costs and run a reliable operations, UA has not figured those things out.
US is still on the lower end of what's offered, especially in F (C's a different story), but unlike SMI/J, Dougie's been actually adding stuff in to make things better. I just hope AA brings US up and not the other way around, however. Hopefully he'll learn from SMI/J and Co.
Jun 28, 2013, 11:43 am
#2540
Join Date: Dec 2009
Programs: WN A-list, Hyatt Glob, HH DM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 434
I read it. He predicts airlines will not make negative changes because they are afraid of social networking response of flyers. The reality is the opposite (most of the changes both DL and UA made to the ff programs are negative). Therefore, Randy's statement is not prophetic.
Jun 28, 2013, 12:55 pm
#2541
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SJC/SFO & ORD
Programs: LT Gold/BA Executive Club/AS MP/Marriott
Posts: 1,646
Randy misses the point that when the legacies distill down to an effective oligarchy, as they now have, they become the equivalent of unavoidable public utilities - like power companies or transit systems. Focus shifts from customer service to efficiency and profitability.
Also, I do recall this as well:
" "United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled"."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-entitled.html
and/or
http://upgrd.com/matthew/united-airl...-entitled.html
Looks to me as if UA wants to "thin the heard" in some sort of way. Either by removing benefits for Elites or possibly (but no probably) lowering the number of Elites.
The problem IMHO is give the competitive landscape in the aviation industry (and my personal belief is the economy isn't improving at all, if not getting worse), this is going to be a bad business move by UA.
Jun 28, 2013, 12:59 pm
#2542
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Summit County UT
Programs: Delta PM Hilton Diamond Bonvoy Ti/LTP Hertz PC
Posts: 636
Yeah on this and many other threads throughout this site, using FT opinions as any kind of proxy for the opinions of the broader FF program membership or the entire flying public is even worse than using seat maps to determine upgrade availability 
FT is a self-selected sample, obviously, but a pretty broad one nonetheless. There's a good-sized cohort here that likes PQD, and there's a slice of the community that seems to have boundless sympathy and support for UA, rationalizing every new move or development as great news. So it's not uniformly "hypersensitive and entitled."
Jun 28, 2013, 1:04 pm
#2543
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: 2012 Plat-2013 Plat-2014 Silver-2015 GM
Posts: 818
What's more scary for any company is, those customers that stop doing business with you without saying a word.
Jun 28, 2013, 1:15 pm
#2544
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The article predicts negative impact to FFers from mergers, yes, but when it predicts social media outrage will force the remaining airlines to be more customer-friendly, I don't think it's prophetic at all. I think it's naive. For one thing, in Randy's world the airlines would have to care about their public image and standing with customers, which United clearly doesn't.
Randy misses the point that when the legacies distill down to an effective oligarchy, as they now have, they become the equivalent of unavoidable public utilities - like power companies or transit systems. Focus shifts from customer service to efficiency and profitability.
Right you are... and NW/CO too. While it was better executed than UA/CO by far, the DL FF program was gutted, and customers quacking about it on Flyertalk, Facebook, etc. had no effect. UA's program is headed down the same grim road.
Randy misses the point that when the legacies distill down to an effective oligarchy, as they now have, they become the equivalent of unavoidable public utilities - like power companies or transit systems. Focus shifts from customer service to efficiency and profitability.
Right you are... and NW/CO too. While it was better executed than UA/CO by far, the DL FF program was gutted, and customers quacking about it on Flyertalk, Facebook, etc. had no effect. UA's program is headed down the same grim road.
Jun 28, 2013, 2:02 pm
#2545
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Jun 28, 2013, 3:38 pm
#2546
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,511
I was checking current fares on a SIN flight I purchased a couple of months ago and noticed that my particular fare had gone down nearly $200. On closer examination it appears that the $288.40 "international surcharge" which had appeared on my ticket has been eliminated and the base fare had instead been increased by a fractional amount of the "International surcharge." In addition, some taxes have decreased. Perhaps UA is eliminating that bogus surcharge to simplify fares for the PQD scheme. I'm also wondering if I and others in the same situation are entitled to a refund of the fare difference due to the aforementioned changes?
Jun 28, 2013, 3:58 pm
#2547
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Homosassa, FL & Ringwood, NJ -UA-G(Lifetime); SPG-Plat (Lifetime)
Posts: 6,120
Randy Petersen, the founder of Flyertalk. wrote an article entitled "Airline Mergers and Frequent Fliers" in Executive Travel Magazine in Sept.2011 in which he predicts the effects of hitting frequent flier program members with what they perceive as negative changes.
The article is well-worth your time to read! Not only does he give the number of MileagePlus + Continental OnePass members in 2011 as 91 million, but also numbers Elites at 2 million. (Some Flyertalkers have stated that UA is protective of giving out the 2013 figures. I wonder why?
)
[/COLOR] [/SIZE]
The article is well-worth your time to read! Not only does he give the number of MileagePlus + Continental OnePass members in 2011 as 91 million, but also numbers Elites at 2 million. (Some Flyertalkers have stated that UA is protective of giving out the 2013 figures. I wonder why?
)[/COLOR] [/SIZE]
This seems to dovetail well with my post #2223, relisted below. It would indicated that the persentages of elites are fairly accurate as well...
I found this:
This excerpt is from "UAL's Our Times, V5 #12 Dec 18, 1999 p10." It's dated but relevant. Does anyone have a more recent statistic?
"United's Premier customers represent 8 percent of the active members, but generate 35 percent of the total transportation revenue. Premier members spend more than 6 times general members, while Premier Executives and 1K members spend more than 12 times and 30 times respectively. If just 1 percent of the Premier-level members resigned from Mileage Plus, the company would lose $58 million in transportation revenue."
While this is OLD, it gives some idea of the importance of Premier members.
While the current number of Premier members is unavailable, some really, really rough estimates are possible:
In 2005, Randy posted that there were 42 M MileagePlus members, 11.7 million (28%) were active. OF THE ACTVE:
535K Silver(4.5% of active)
239K Gold (2% of active)
46.1K 1K(0.4% of active)
18K GS (0.15% of active)
Note how the total % (~7) is pretty close to the 8% in the 1999 article
In a Feb 2011 Financial Interview, Tom O'Toole of UA stated that the combined MP/OP members were expected to number 94M.
Rounding and bringing it to 2013, lets call it 100M members in MP today.
If we take the same 28% as active, we have 28 M active MP members today, meaning, if we use the percentages that existed in 2005:
Silver 1.26M
Gold 560K
Plat ?
1K 112K
GS 42K
Thus, in 1999: "if just 1% of premier members resigned, the company would lose 58 million in reveue...."
Imagine the revenue loss if 2-3% of current MP members are no longer loyal to UA. It seems to be a really big gamble by UA.
Jun 28, 2013, 5:57 pm
#2548
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver & Phoenix
Programs: UA 2MM, Life UC, Global Entry (UK citizen)
Posts: 129
I bought a UA ticket from DEN-LHR for $1089.70.
UA said the ticket was $391.00 and Additional Taxes/Fees were $698.70.
The breakdown of the Taxes/Fees is below.
Okay, I know I would get $391.00 in PQD.......But how many PQD, if any, am I going to get from the $698.70??
Taxes/Fees
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $105.30
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $34.40
U.K. Passenger Service Charge $62.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
International Surcharge $458.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge $13.50
September 11th Security Fee $7.50
Certain taxes/fees listed above are included in the originally quoted price.
UA said the ticket was $391.00 and Additional Taxes/Fees were $698.70.
The breakdown of the Taxes/Fees is below.
Okay, I know I would get $391.00 in PQD.......But how many PQD, if any, am I going to get from the $698.70??
Taxes/Fees
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $105.30
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $34.40
U.K. Passenger Service Charge $62.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
International Surcharge $458.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge $13.50
September 11th Security Fee $7.50
Certain taxes/fees listed above are included in the originally quoted price.
Jun 28, 2013, 6:08 pm
#2549
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,310
I bought a UA ticket from DEN-LHR for $1089.70.
UA said the ticket was $391.00 and Additional Taxes/Fees were $698.70.
The breakdown of the Taxes/Fees is below.
Okay, I know I would get $391.00 in PQD.......But how many PQD, if any, am I going to get from the $698.70??
Taxes/Fees
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $105.30
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $34.40
U.K. Passenger Service Charge $62.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
International Surcharge $458.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge $13.50
September 11th Security Fee $7.50
Certain taxes/fees listed above are included in the originally quoted price.
UA said the ticket was $391.00 and Additional Taxes/Fees were $698.70.
The breakdown of the Taxes/Fees is below.
Okay, I know I would get $391.00 in PQD.......But how many PQD, if any, am I going to get from the $698.70??
Taxes/Fees
U.K. Air Passenger Duty $105.30
U.S. Customs User Fee $5.50
U.S. APHIS User Fee $5.00
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax $34.40
U.K. Passenger Service Charge $62.50
U.S. Immigration User Fee $7.00
International Surcharge $458.00
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge $13.50
September 11th Security Fee $7.50
Certain taxes/fees listed above are included in the originally quoted price.
Jun 28, 2013, 6:11 pm
#2550
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Denver & Phoenix
Programs: UA 2MM, Life UC, Global Entry (UK citizen)
Posts: 129
@rankourabu: Looks like to accrue $10K PQD, you might have to spend $12-13K on tickets? (About 20-30% more than 10 Grand?)
So, looking at alternatives, what are the UA Rules regarding having an overseas primary address?
I.e. Do you have to be a U.S. Citizen? U.S. Permanent Resident? Resident/Citizen of a foreign country?
So, looking at alternatives, what are the UA Rules regarding having an overseas primary address?
I.e. Do you have to be a U.S. Citizen? U.S. Permanent Resident? Resident/Citizen of a foreign country?
Last edited by EMan; Jun 28, 2013 at 6:23 pm