Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
#3286
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: MLB, SMF, and many points in between
Programs: Back to UA with a bit of Hyatt and some Marriott
Posts: 3,476
Once upon a time Virginia, when folks flew an airline they liked, and flew it a lot, the airline rewarded them with really nice bennies and perks, and the customer felt good.
Few rules to learn. Just be loyal, and fly a lot, and both airline and customer lived happily ever after.
Hard to imagine that was the case just a few years back!
Few rules to learn. Just be loyal, and fly a lot, and both airline and customer lived happily ever after.
Hard to imagine that was the case just a few years back!
That was always the goal of these incentive programs ("loyalty" is a marketing term). But too many people got too good at extracting more than they spent. So now there are changes.
#3287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,243
Starting in 2014: Changes to Premier qualification
^ what do you think the actual cost is to UA for upgrading someone 6 times a year on int'l flights to an empty seat? A couple of hundred bucks at most, more likely around 10 bucks a trip. Certainly nowhere near the 10k required spend to get those certs. I don't think cost is the reason for these changes, it's purely revenue raising.
#3288
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
^ what do you think the actual cost is to UA for upgrading someone 6 times a year on int'l flights to an empty seat? A couple of hundred bucks at most, more likely around 10 bucks a trip. Certainly nowhere near the 10k required spend to get those certs. I don't think cost is the reason for these changes, it's purely revenue raising.
#3289
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 8,634
Anything can be sold at the right price. UA sets higher prices on their seats because the ones that will be unsold get used for upgrades and other complimentary travel. If there were no upgrades they would be selling those seats, at a lower average price than their current average price, but more total sales for more total revenue.
Nah.
#3290
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: All opinions/interpretations expressed here are my own and are not officially sanctioned by UA
Posts: 352
^ what do you think the actual cost is to UA for upgrading someone 6 times a year on int'l flights to an empty seat? A couple of hundred bucks at most, more likely around 10 bucks a trip. Certainly nowhere near the 10k required spend to get those certs. I don't think cost is the reason for these changes, it's purely revenue raising.
#3291
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,600
^ what do you think the actual cost is to UA for upgrading someone 6 times a year on int'l flights to an empty seat? A couple of hundred bucks at most, more likely around 10 bucks a trip. Certainly nowhere near the 10k required spend to get those certs. I don't think cost is the reason for these changes, it's purely revenue raising.
Also, I agree with mgcsinc, you can't assume that every seat given to an upgrade would have gone empty. IM would like to reach that result, but the science is inexact. When IM releases too much R space, UA is deprived of premium revenue. It definitely happens (I can recall, for example, a woman literally begging the agent to sell her two F seats at the gate in LIH. Of course there were none to sell her, the F cabin having already been filled through CPU's).
#3292
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,201
Like the increased revenue from a loyal customer who gives business to United in part because he/she receives upgrades (and/or who would withhold business from United if the upgrades stop coming). It's hard to quantify just how much that comes out to for any given seat, but it's a real factor.
#3293
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,600
Like the increased revenue from a loyal customer who gives business to United in part because he/she receives upgrades (and/or who would withhold business from United if the upgrades stop coming). It's hard to quantify just how much that comes out to for any given seat, but it's a real factor.
#3294
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,333
I flew plenty of times from SYD-USA and bought W and up fares - from HERE often double the lowest fare. I looked up one for friend yesterday and W to IAD was $US2,522.
And that USED to near guarantee a SWU/Global upgrade.
In recent years it did not.
We took B fares to IAD and UA sold upgrades to Kettles at check in and for $4000 we flew to USA sitting next to lots of folks who bought the $900 S/K/T cheapies.
So assuming everyone on FT takes mileage run K fares is very foolish.
#3295
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,961
It's pretty easy to understand why UA might not want to routinely give away its C seats to Australia for $800-1200 each way, plus a GPU that people value at only a few hundred bucks. This is the kind of change that's the difference between a profitable airline and an unprofitable one. They make these upgrades available sometimes, and you should count yourself lucky when you get them, or be willing to go out of your way and choose your travel dates when there is availability. For them to effectively mark down all of their C seats to $1000-1500 seems like poor business practice to me.
#3296
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
I understand why some believe "the only non-ticket purchases that may earn Premier qualifying dollars (PQD) in 2014 are Economy Plus purchases" to be somewhat ambiguous, especially given that it negates almost any benefit of Premier Acccelerator. But that combined with the note saying that only ticket components that count are the base fare and carrier surcharges makes it pretty clear to me where most of the so-called ambiguous items fall unless the text says something they didn't intend for it to say. My guess is that the "some people" you quote should probably be planning to fly another carrier in 2014.
I'm sure the people on this thread who have it clear they are waiting have a plan B.
And by the way, I interpret the act of people who put simple phrases like "some people" in quotes as an insinuation that I am lying. Given that anyone who has read this thread knows otherwise, this reflects more on you than me. Best of luck with your business.
It is possible to juxtapose airline and profit in the same sentence? Who knew? I always thought the way to make a $1M in the airline biz was to start with $1B.
Last edited by mre5765; Sep 6, 2013 at 2:57 am
#3297
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Frozen in Carbonite
Programs: UA Aluminum 0.6MM, Bonvoy Life Sentence, Hyatt Eliteist, AA Super Plutonium
Posts: 2,878
That is a very interesting point which I haven't considered before. I've wondered how the accelerator program would work in 2014, or if it would even exist going forward.
I think it would be very confusing to the general public to offer the premier maximizer but not have the spend count toward PQD.
Besides, revenue is revenue, right? What's the difference whether it comes from economy plus purchases, flights, or RDM/PQM purchases? Hell, I'd argue that the PQM purchases are a higher quality revenue stream than most. You have no direct costs, no balance sheet impacts, and you're providing "benefits" to a flyer who is admittedly on your planes less than someone of the equivalent tier who earned their status via BIS. I would incentivize people to make those PQM purchases by counting them toward PQD...
I think it would be very confusing to the general public to offer the premier maximizer but not have the spend count toward PQD.
Besides, revenue is revenue, right? What's the difference whether it comes from economy plus purchases, flights, or RDM/PQM purchases? Hell, I'd argue that the PQM purchases are a higher quality revenue stream than most. You have no direct costs, no balance sheet impacts, and you're providing "benefits" to a flyer who is admittedly on your planes less than someone of the equivalent tier who earned their status via BIS. I would incentivize people to make those PQM purchases by counting them toward PQD...
Last edited by TommyC80; Sep 6, 2013 at 4:08 am
#3298
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maryland
Programs: United, Turkish
Posts: 640
OK PQD for Dummies time
Quote from UA insider
Am I guaranteed 016 ticket stock and PQD if I purchase through United.com?
Yes, if it is an eligible United, United Express, Copa Airlines or MileagePlus partner-operated flight segment.
Ok what does "eligible" mean in this context? In particular I am buying A turkish air flight on United.com.
Flight: TK1861
Operated by Turkish Airlines.
Aircraft: Airbus A321
Fare Class: Economy (V)
Meal: Meal
No Special Meal Offered.
See On-Time Performance
Quote from UA insider
Am I guaranteed 016 ticket stock and PQD if I purchase through United.com?
Yes, if it is an eligible United, United Express, Copa Airlines or MileagePlus partner-operated flight segment.
Ok what does "eligible" mean in this context? In particular I am buying A turkish air flight on United.com.
Flight: TK1861
Operated by Turkish Airlines.
Aircraft: Airbus A321
Fare Class: Economy (V)
Meal: Meal
No Special Meal Offered.
See On-Time Performance
#3299
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NY
Programs: The local deli gives me 1 free sandwich after I buy 10
Posts: 4,026
I am the MRunner that UA and hard working business fliers probably don't like. My wife and I both attained gold status for 2014 by flying 50k for $2,100.
So I don't like PQD but I understand why UA is doing it.
...Is there a glimmer of hope for 2015 and beyond for those spending $25k on a UA Chase card? Xyzzy may have given the only answer to that question :
I agree, chasing status is more futile today than pre June 2013
#3300
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,482
What does that 016 ticket number represent and how does UA process the revenue? If you're talking about a B&C situation, is the ticket number different from that of the cancelled ticket? Either way, you must ask whether that ticket will be processed the same way any other ticket would -- resulting in that revenue cunting? Which fare component carries the maximizer revenue and how does that affect things? I don't think the answers are clear. So far we have zero details from UA about any of this minutia.