UAs Official Response to HKG Ticketing/IT Error: Redeem @ Correct Amount or Redeposit
Sep 4, 2012, 11:45 pm
#3901
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Sep 5, 2012, 2:59 am
#3902
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No, your response to me was correct, but that is because my post was 100% correct. I said that it had to be a mistake, as defined by law. Your response (admitting your error about a mistake not being relevant) was correct, in part, that a mistake usually requires that the recipient also know or suspect it was a mistake. But (as I discussed in another post), EVERY person who bought these tickets knew it was a mistake, in my view. Now, some people might not be honest about it. But I don't believe that a bunch of people independently discovered the mistake while trying to piece together multi-flight itineraries as newbies.
I see you deliberately chose not to reply to my question about what legal basis they would quote.
For your comment about everyone knowing see below, and for that matter earlier in the thread. I always question such absolute statements, because in real life the more or less never hold water.
Are you still suggesting someone/anyone did NOT know this was a mistake?
100% of the people that booked this knew it was a mistake. No airline has EVER discounted mileage tickets by over 90%. None. Zero. Zip.
Also, the correct mileage was listed on the first page. It only changed on the booking page. Yet, another reason they knew it was a mistake.
When airlines do discount mileage tickets, they advertise it.
Your gambling example is a good one - the players knew it was a mistake. The judge acknowledged that. The judge ruled on the casino's responsibility. So you can argue UA is responsible to pay for the mistake, but, don't be silly and try to argue people did not know it was a mistake.
100% of the people that booked this knew it was a mistake. No airline has EVER discounted mileage tickets by over 90%. None. Zero. Zip.
Also, the correct mileage was listed on the first page. It only changed on the booking page. Yet, another reason they knew it was a mistake.
When airlines do discount mileage tickets, they advertise it.
Your gambling example is a good one - the players knew it was a mistake. The judge acknowledged that. The judge ruled on the casino's responsibility. So you can argue UA is responsible to pay for the mistake, but, don't be silly and try to argue people did not know it was a mistake.
Also, plenty of times you can score good deals BEFORE its advertised if their IT is not in sync, they are in beta etc etc. Also its quite common you buy something because you need it, and not because its on sale, and if you get a sales price on check out, at the counter etc then you happily accept.
Although its pretty clear it is a mistake, at least for the large majority, its 100% sure there are plenty of bookings made by people that didnt know. I know a guy who very well "knew" it was a mistake who called his mother and asked her to book a HKG-US trip on the UA flash sale letting her know UA would pull the discount on the payment page. She did. I have mentioned other examples before.
*I am wondering what made you jump into this debate now, months after this thread was started. You have 12 posts total and you were no where around for the first million pages of this. I wonder what made you get involved in this debate now?! After its pretty much over
A post that proves the excact opposite.I have seen this argument a few times, and dont really get it. How would this be done, and how likely is it with whatever limitation that practice would come with- that it could be widespread? Limited buying/booking window, no name changes, booking fees, change fees, later no changes etc.
Sep 5, 2012, 6:19 am
#3903
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this has just started- its far from over. Why the need to question why people contribute??
When will you say it's over? Serious question, not snarky. The DOT has already said they don't get back to individual complaints. I agree that when they say they can't "force" UA to honor anything that they can impose fines so heavy that UA would rather honor them then pay......but since there is a good chance we may never hear another word from UA or the DOT, when would you personally say "I guess it's over"?
I have seen this argument a few times, and dont really get it. How would this be done, and how likely is it with whatever limitation that practice would come with- that it could be widespread? Limited buying/booking window, no name changes, booking fees, change fees, later no changes etc.
When will you say it's over? Serious question, not snarky. The DOT has already said they don't get back to individual complaints. I agree that when they say they can't "force" UA to honor anything that they can impose fines so heavy that UA would rather honor them then pay......but since there is a good chance we may never hear another word from UA or the DOT, when would you personally say "I guess it's over"?
I have seen this argument a few times, and dont really get it. How would this be done, and how likely is it with whatever limitation that practice would come with- that it could be widespread? Limited buying/booking window, no name changes, booking fees, change fees, later no changes etc.
Your comment about absolutes is very true. Anyone that says there is anything absolute about this or the outcome is just talking to hear themselves. I don't "think" they will honor these but that's my opinion, it's certainly not an absolute. What's funny is when 1 person posts that they will not honor these, no way, no how they get blasted for talking in "absolutes" only to be countered by arguments like " UA will surly get fined big time for this, etc. which are just more "absolutes". Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this but those that are SURE which way this will end up are just full of bluster
Last edited by chinatraderjmr; Sep 5, 2012 at 6:25 am
Sep 5, 2012, 6:46 am
#3904
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Wow, just wow. Thought I was looking at a thread written by young children. The amount of people posting above who took advantage of the mistake because they wanted to get back at UA is amazing. Even Steven. You hurt me in the past so I am going to hurt you now and every chance I get. No wonder society is going in the tank.
Sep 5, 2012, 6:57 am
#3905
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HOW IS IT EVEN RELEVANT THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE?
Of course it was a mistake.
Doesn't stop their obligations AFTER they've ticketed. Or is there some mysterious mistake clause in the contract of carriage that absolves them of theirobligation to honor tickets thaythey themselves have issued.
And why the condemnation from long time FTers for people who wish to fight the issue? The armchair moral majority and their constant banter is tiring. In fact, the anti-mistake fare crowd just seems to be repeating themselves, over, and over, and over, and over...
Of course it was a mistake.
Doesn't stop their obligations AFTER they've ticketed. Or is there some mysterious mistake clause in the contract of carriage that absolves them of theirobligation to honor tickets thaythey themselves have issued.
And why the condemnation from long time FTers for people who wish to fight the issue? The armchair moral majority and their constant banter is tiring. In fact, the anti-mistake fare crowd just seems to be repeating themselves, over, and over, and over, and over...
The it's a mistake crowd is also repeating themselves over and over and over and over. Indeed, if you took out all the repeating it's a mistake it's stupid to expect them to honor it, and all the it's a mistake the law says they have to honor it as they ticketed it, the thread would be about a dozen posts.
Sep 5, 2012, 8:52 am
#3906
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The point I am making still holds true (IMO) - 100% of the people that booked it, new it was a mistake.
But, I hope everyone gets the 4 mile tickets honored - creates a nice precedent. (Maybe not a legal one, but, a generally accepted practice.)
Sep 5, 2012, 9:48 am
#3907
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Sep 5, 2012, 10:32 am
#3908
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Sep 5, 2012, 12:05 pm
#3909
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When will you say it's over? Serious question, not snarky. The DOT has already said they don't get back to individual complaints. I agree that when they say they can't "force" UA to honor anything that they can impose fines so heavy that UA would rather honor them then pay......but since there is a good chance we may never hear another word from UA or the DOT, when would you personally say "I guess it's over"?
Wow, just wow. Thought I was looking at a thread written by young children. The amount of people posting above who took advantage of the mistake because they wanted to get back at UA is amazing. Even Steven. You hurt me in the past so I am going to hurt you now and every chance I get. No wonder society is going in the tank.
Further its not clear what I presumeably dont know, but Im actually posting on this thread from personal knowledge with this case and the law in related cases.
Are you still suggesting someone/anyone did NOT know this was a mistake?
100% of the people that booked this knew it was a mistake. No airline has EVER discounted mileage tickets by over 90%. None. Zero. Zip.
Also, the correct mileage was listed on the first page. It only changed on the booking page. Yet, another reason they knew it was a mistake.
When airlines do discount mileage tickets, they advertise it.
Your gambling example is a good one - the players knew it was a mistake. The judge acknowledged that. The judge ruled on the casino's responsibility. So you can argue UA is responsible to pay for the mistake, but, don't be silly and try to argue people did not know it was a mistake.
100% of the people that booked this knew it was a mistake. No airline has EVER discounted mileage tickets by over 90%. None. Zero. Zip.
Also, the correct mileage was listed on the first page. It only changed on the booking page. Yet, another reason they knew it was a mistake.
When airlines do discount mileage tickets, they advertise it.
Your gambling example is a good one - the players knew it was a mistake. The judge acknowledged that. The judge ruled on the casino's responsibility. So you can argue UA is responsible to pay for the mistake, but, don't be silly and try to argue people did not know it was a mistake.
Sep 5, 2012, 12:18 pm
#3910
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IMO regular lawsuits in State or federal Court are not going to happen. I don't know ANYONE that would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees just to try to get back a tkt worth $10-20K. No lawyer worth his salt would take a case this time consuming without at least a $50,000 retainer
That leaves small claims court. Wondering if anyone has gone that route yet?
Sep 5, 2012, 2:34 pm
#3911
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Does anyone know "first hand" of an actual law suit that has been started yet? (ie: papers served)
IMO regular lawsuits in State or federal Court are not going to happen. I don't know ANYONE that would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees just to try to get back a tkt worth $10-20K. No lawyer worth his salt would take a case this time consuming without at least a $50,000 retainer
That leaves small claims court. Wondering if anyone has gone that route yet?
IMO regular lawsuits in State or federal Court are not going to happen. I don't know ANYONE that would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees just to try to get back a tkt worth $10-20K. No lawyer worth his salt would take a case this time consuming without at least a $50,000 retainer
That leaves small claims court. Wondering if anyone has gone that route yet?
There could be class action.
And someone with a "good" case could go for a state lawsuit. I know from other miles/points cases far lower retainers, and you may have contingency.
And add jurisdictions outside US.
Most will be settled though, after you show muscles with attorney letterhead and/or SCC filed.
Sep 5, 2012, 3:20 pm
#3913
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Sep 5, 2012, 5:34 pm
#3914
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I don't see a contradiction. Anyone who is saying they did not know 4 miles for first class is lying. I stand by that. If you are referring to the miles changing from one page to another, I was referring to one of the many newspaper articles... further indicating the mistake. But, someone stated they did not believe that happened on multiple city international first class tickets... okay, if true... but ... INTERNATIONAL FIRST CLASS TICKET WITH MULTIPLE CONNECTIONS/STOPS FOR 4 MILES... clearly a mistake. Everyone knew it.
What is your personal knowledge? (Or are you one of the many super secret lawyer/judge/executive/insider super heroes on FT that cannot reveal their true identity. 
)
)
Sep 6, 2012, 12:14 am
#3915
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My take; There will be a few dozens SCC cases. And Id have to say now is the time to start moving on that.
There could be class action.
And someone with a "good" case could go for a state lawsuit. I know from other miles/points cases far lower retainers, and you may have contingency.
And add jurisdictions outside US.
Most will be settled though, after you show muscles with attorney letterhead and/or SCC filed.
There could be class action.
And someone with a "good" case could go for a state lawsuit. I know from other miles/points cases far lower retainers, and you may have contingency.
And add jurisdictions outside US.
Most will be settled though, after you show muscles with attorney letterhead and/or SCC filed.
