Global321

DOT has zero power to enforce tickets.

Fines, yes. Force United to honor tickets, no.

Here is my understanding from the thread...

Total Bookings @ 4 miles - around 4,000

Bookings
Flight Started - honored
Phone booked - honored
Future web booked - cancelled

Lawsuits/Offers
Offers to settle by UA - none (verifiable)
Lawsuits settled - none (ignoring the super secret settlements )
DOT Ruling/Fine - pending/not settled

Any other (verifiable) updates?

sbrower

No, your response to me was correct, but that is because my post was 100% correct. I said that it had to be a mistake, as defined by law. Your response (admitting your error about a mistake not being relevant) was correct, in part, that a mistake usually requires that the recipient also know or suspect it was a mistake. But (as I discussed in another post), EVERY person who bought these tickets knew it was a mistake, in my view. Now, some people might not be honest about it. But I don't believe that a bunch of people independently discovered the mistake while trying to piece together multi-flight itineraries as newbies.

cblaisd

Actually, I can think of several ways that this could be a real PR coup.

Of course they did. ^

chinatraderjmr

As opposed to the "pro mistake fare crowd" who have not been repeating themselves at all. They have all been very polite, understanding of others points of view & once they post their feelings have gone quietly into the good night

It takes Two to tango & the fact that you could Even says this with a straight face is amusing.

lehmanins

Since I (regrettably) seem to have restarted the "was it a mistake" topic with my comment from a few days ago, let me expound on what I was trying to say.

I put up the link to the NY Post story of the gamblers who successfully took advantage of the error made by the casino to illustrate the point that a judge found that the onus was on the casino, not on the players.

chinatraderjmr, your comment implied you were convinced of two absolutes.

1. that the gamblers didnt know the decks wouldnt be properly shuffled when they won the money in question

and

2. that everyone who bought a UA ticket knew something.

i wonder... how do you deal in such absolutes? were you at the casino? did you speak with everyone that bought a HKG ticket before they bought it?

i'm going to ignore the gambling issue (which completely discredits your position) because your claim is so seemingly off base that it's not worth discussing.

but, as it pertains to HKG, i would note that in the not so distant past, i've purchased advertised airline tickets for $1 (plus tax). why is it any less reasonable to assume that there were some customers who thought this too was a good deal? because UA sent some of its customers an unsolicited email a month after it sold confirmed tickets littered with falsehoods (about the booking process, about contacting the airline, about the mileage balance in my account, and about other issues) suggesting that everyone should have known it was a mistake? come on.

lets not deal in falsehoods and absolutes. it only serves to justify UA's exceptionally poor (and potentially illegal) handling of this situation, which i hope the DOT rectifies to its maximum ability.

Global321

Are you still suggesting someone/anyone did NOT know this was a mistake?

100% of the people that booked this knew it was a mistake. No airline has EVER discounted mileage tickets by over 90%. None. Zero. Zip.

Also, the correct mileage was listed on the first page. It only changed on the booking page. Yet, another reason they knew it was a mistake.

When airlines do discount mileage tickets, they advertise it.

Your gambling example is a good one - the players knew it was a mistake. The judge acknowledged that. The judge ruled on the casino's responsibility. So you can argue UA is responsible to pay for the mistake, but, don't be silly and try to argue people did not know it was a mistake.

XLR26

If only you could convince UA to do the same.

MKE-MR

Actually, given that people have in the past posted ridiculous screen shots of MILLIONS of miles being quoted for simple United itineraries, you could argue that the amount is nearly always discounted from what we've sometimes seen

More to the point, airlines with dynamic pricing strategies (Aeroplan, Qantas) do often ask for hundreds of thousands of miles, literally, for itineraries that would only cost 15K on a good day. That would be more than a 90% discount. So, not zero.

Just injecting facts...not saying they strengthen or weaken the case one way or another.

HumbleBee

With UA, it's likely they only fly UA because of the miles (especially F pax), so I'd say there's a smaller proportion than EK

chinatraderjmr

we can agree to disagree. I don't take the stand that UA handled this well, they didn't. But I do take the position that the DOT are not idiots and they know the spirit of the new rules was to stop airlines from taking advantage of customers. No where did UA take advantage of anyone here & I believe the DOT knows that. I'm pretty sure if they planned to do anything, it would have happened already. Laws & regulations are never black & white regardless of how some people see this. Thank God they are usually grey and open to interpretation

*I am wondering what made you jump into this debate now, months after this thread was started. You have 12 posts total and you were no where around for the first million pages of this. I wonder what made you get involved in this debate now?! After its pretty much over

chinatraderjmr

UA & most airlines are some of the most unscrupulous, consumer UN-friendly business there are. But two wrongs don't make it right. Unfortunatly, we know when buying a tkt from UA or anyone else the decks are stacked against us as consumers

HumbleBee

I disagree. The reason I booked these tickets is because I felt UA takes advantage of unfair laws when they hurt me, so it's only fair for me to take advantage of the regulations.

I.e., if everyone is being fair, I wouldn't feel right taking advantage because of some ridiclous regulation. But in todays world, especially in the airline industry, everyone takes advantage whenever the law provides an opportunity, so I do feel entitled to enjoy the benefits of the law when it's in my favor.

For example, I know when I buy car insurance, if they find any technicality that's wrong with my application, they won't fulfill my claim if I file one. So I'll feel comfortable not paying if they provide a legal justification not to do so. But if my local grocery commits an error that entitles me legally to avoid payment, I wouldn't take advantage of this law, as they don't do so to their customers.

global happy traveller

Still going on about it? Many of us moved on in life!

chinatraderjmr

^. Your reasoning is the only reason that why While I still don't agree that UA must honor these tkts, part of me was glad to see people "gaming the system". & wish more people had gotten to fly. Your 100% right that if UA had any good will left, it might be a different story now.

Unfortunatly though, there will always be those people that bought tkts to re-sell or got 10,15,20 tkts just cuz they "could". IMO if those people did not exhist, these other tkts might have been honored but I guess we will never know.

HumbleBee

Aside from PR, everything depends solely on UAs political relationship with their regulator. Its a person to person thing and there's no way we can know.

The reason I hope they'd honor them isn't so I can fly for free, but so the shareholders & board (and the gov when considering the US/AA catastrophe) see the light and make some drastic change to management. (I don't kid myself to know exactly who the problem is)