April 2012 DOT Data Released
Jun 14, 2012, 2:00 pm
#16
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
data from April shows that the transition did not go smoothly. I believe everyone here probably knows this. Data from later this year will show what any new normal is and the trend will tell a lot.
April's data is certainly meaningful, but no point in overstating what it means.
April's data is certainly meaningful, but no point in overstating what it means.
The last time they were not in the bottom third of the complaint rankings (usually in the bottom two) was October of 2004, when they were ranked 8th out of 19 airlines.
There was no merger back in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, etc.
Jun 14, 2012, 2:20 pm
#17
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
What are you basing this on? United has been at the bottom of the pile, or just two or three positions from the bottom for years. This is not a new normal, it's the way things are month after month.
The last time they were not in the bottom third of the complaint rankings (usually in the bottom two) was October of 2004, when they were ranked 8th out of 19 airlines.
The last time they were not in the bottom third of the complaint rankings (usually in the bottom two) was October of 2004, when they were ranked 8th out of 19 airlines.
Jun 14, 2012, 2:33 pm
#18
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA PP, AA, DL, BA, CX, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 2,002
)
Jun 14, 2012, 3:04 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AA EXP, HH Diamond, MR Gold, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,252
Jun 14, 2012, 3:15 pm
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Jun 14, 2012, 3:43 pm
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
The numbers may always have been below average, but they were never as bad to this degree...having 2x the complaint rate of the next lowest major is horrible.
Jun 14, 2012, 4:44 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: MileagePlus
Posts: 412
Here is some historical DOT data to put the April numbers in context. The 2012 data below does not include the April data.
INVOLUNTARY DB’s PER 10,000 PASSENGERS
VOLUNTARY DB’s PER 10,000 PASSENGERS
COMPLAINTS PER 100,000 ENPLANEMENTS
INVOLUNTARY DB’s PER 10,000 PASSENGERS
Code:
Year AA CO DL NW UA US AVG 2007 0.90 1.80 3.22 1.09 0.62 1.45 1.51 2008 0.77 1.46 1.62 0.84 1.04 1.57 1.22 2009 0.56 1.57 1.14 0.60 1.31 1.40 1.10 2010 0.87 1.84 0.42 1.28 1.64 1.21 2011 1.04 1.55 0.30 1.05 0.97 0.98 2012 0.81 0.44 1.73 0.72 0.93 AVG 0.82 1.64 1.19 0.84 1.17 1.29
Code:
Year AA CO DL NW UA US AVG 2007 9.99 9.05 15.71 17.01 14.40 14.90 13.51 2008 7.99 9.66 9.32 12.14 14.06 17.47 11.77 2009 7.48 10.10 9.06 12.35 15.97 14.49 11.58 2010 8.43 8.95 11.15 12.53 12.51 10.71 2011 7.55 8.05 10.48 17.34 8.19 10.32 2012 7.96 12.18 11.83 5.53 9.38 AVG 8.23 9.16 11.32 13.83 14.36 12.18
Code:
2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Jan-May Jul-Dec Jan-Jun Jul-Dec Jan-Jun Jul-Dec Jan-Jun Jul-Dec Jan-Mar Jul-Dec AA 1.68 1.09 1.03 1.55 1.32 1.49 1.37 1.12 CO 1.23 1.10 0.90 1.63 1.31 1.71 2.18 DL 1.96 1.89 2.01 2.17 1.79 1.30 1.27 0.73 NW 1.11 1.18 1.26 UA 2.26 1.38 1.30 1.84 1.44 1.99 2.26 2.59 US 2.19 1.46 1.16 1.69 1.37 1.72 2.00 1.53 AVG 1.71 1.35 1.28 1.78 1.45 1.64 1.81 1.49
Jun 14, 2012, 5:08 pm
#24
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
Jun 14, 2012, 5:18 pm
#25
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
These numbers are meaningless!!! When the DOT allows weather related delays, certain mechanicals, etc to be counted then I might glance at them. Keep in mind if flight X that departs @ 6AM is late 25 out of 30 days departing SFO due to FOG. But the 5 days there is no early fog the flight leaves right on time, then that flight is considered on time 100% of the time.. How ridiculous........
Jun 14, 2012, 5:36 pm
#26
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,117
These numbers are meaningless!!! When the DOT allows weather related delays, certain mechanicals, etc to be counted then I might glance at them. Keep in mind if flight X that departs @ 6AM is late 25 out of 30 days departing SFO due to FOG. But the 5 days there is no early fog the flight leaves right on time, then that flight is considered on time 100% of the time.. How ridiculous........
Whether or not these stats are meaningful regardless of this is still open for debate, but these do include all delays longer than 15 minutes regardless of the cause. If you were to remove delays that the DOT considers to be outside the airlines' control (weather, etc.), UA's on-time percentage would shoot up to close to 90% (as would everyone else's).
Jun 14, 2012, 5:41 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,463
DL 1.96 1.89 2.01 2.17 1.79 1.30 1.27 0.73
Incidentally, there is not one period in the last four years where pre-merger UA registered fewer DOT complaints than Continental. I guess CO really had everyone brainwashed...
Jun 14, 2012, 5:49 pm
#28
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,686
These numbers are meaningless!!! When the DOT allows weather related delays, certain mechanicals, etc to be counted then I might glance at them. Keep in mind if flight X that departs @ 6AM is late 25 out of 30 days departing SFO due to FOG. But the 5 days there is no early fog the flight leaves right on time, then that flight is considered on time 100% of the time.. How ridiculous........
Jun 14, 2012, 5:58 pm
#29
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
You've said this several times, but it's not true. The DOT stats that are being reported right now are on-time stats ... if you read the report, you will see that weather-related, ATC, and other delays that might be considered outside of UA's control still decrease UA's on-time percentage.
Whether or not these stats are meaningful regardless of this is still open for debate, but these do include all delays longer than 15 minutes regardless of the cause. If you were to remove delays that the DOT considers to be outside the airlines' control (weather, etc.), UA's on-time percentage would shoot up to close to 90% (as would everyone else's).
Whether or not these stats are meaningful regardless of this is still open for debate, but these do include all delays longer than 15 minutes regardless of the cause. If you were to remove delays that the DOT considers to be outside the airlines' control (weather, etc.), UA's on-time percentage would shoot up to close to 90% (as would everyone else's).
The actual stats can be seen here: http://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Dela...elayCause1.asp.
Jun 14, 2012, 6:04 pm
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
It's possible. But none of these data show DL being 2x the next lowest rate, which is what we've seen from UA over the past two month. If this is a trend, that's really bad.