Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 30, 2013, 10:41 pm
#1876
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Sure -- but PE benefits changed over time so the specific benefits were not enumerated. What is underlined indicates that you were given lifetime PE status and that status includes whatever benefits that status comes with as if you had requalified every year. Please do n
t try to argue that the status remained constant throughout the life of the program. That clearly did not occur.
t try to argue that the status remained constant throughout the life of the program. That clearly did not occur.What it will come down to, if it does, is what was their original intention when they made this decision back in 1997. Everyone who put the Million Miles and More Program together are all alive and well.
To have UAs best flyers bickering over their wording alone is shameful and awful. I know United's executives are reading this and I think it's disgusting this is happening. They know EXACTLY what they did was not right and should do the right thing and end this suit. But doing it the other way would be too costly.
I totally agree. I was 1K for 10 years. And the rug got pulled out when I was within 65K of 1MM BIS on UA metal (have since passed it without the adjustment). Was a slap in the face for all I had worked for. And the sad part is because I was not there on 1/1/12 I don't get to be part of the class action if (when
) it gets that far. I feel I had about as much invested in it as those that made it on 12/31/11.
) it gets that far. I feel I had about as much invested in it as those that made it on 12/31/11.I realize it may not be the exact topic for this particular thread, but this is probably a place to point out that the PMCO MM program offered the lifetime spouse benefit. I am pretty sure that this was specified to be for the lifetime of the spouse (so that person would maintain status in the event of the death of the MM). I am pretty sure this is no longer the case. Such detail, if my recollection is correct, would be the same situation as the missing RPU instruments, a specifically defined benefit that was summarily changed/remved. I would be interested to hear what others recall about this. Feel free to start a new thread or to PM me.
ved. I would be interested to hear what others recall about this. Feel free to start a new thread or to PM me.Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 30, 2013 at 11:10 pm Reason: merge
Sep 30, 2013, 10:49 pm
#1877
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
You bring up a great point. They are still available to talk to to find out exactly what they intended. Unlike other things that are purely speculation as to what certain educated people "think" was intended by the people who wrote the items. The second amendment to the constitution is a prime example. We will never know what they really intended, only what is interpreted to be what they intended. So someone involved with the case should go talk to the people who came up with the program in 1997.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:53 pm
#1878
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
In the premerger UA million miler program? What does your welcome letter say? I have just the opposite view, in that I was promised lifetime Premier Executive status. I have the letter promising that. The UA web site promised that. I didn't agree to negotiate it away to some other specified program level.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:56 pm
#1879
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
You bring up a great point. They are still available to talk to to find out exactly what they intended. Unlike other things that are purely speculation as to what certain educated people "think" was intended by the people who wrote the items. The second amendment to the constitution is a prime example. We will never know what they really intended, only what is interpreted to be what they intended. So someone involved with the case should go talk to the people who came up with the program in 1997.
United went ahead and asked the judge, before he gave the suit class action status, if limited discovery could be done first, he said yes. Limited discovery was done and was completed last month.
If the judge sides with the MM, with the limited discovery, UA will be in a tough spot. This means the limited discovery was powerful enough to move it forward. The next step would be total discovery and that is where everyone gets deposed and the true story comes together. That would not be good for UA. This would also include getting a group of you guys deposed and tell your stories. You see where this goes if we get the green light? Not good for UA PR-wise or legally.
Again let's see. The judge could side with UA as well.
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Sep 30, 2013 at 11:01 pm
Sep 30, 2013, 11:07 pm
#1880
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,436
t given the PE status you earned? (Assume all of the other changes remain in place and that PE has what are now known as the PG benefits.)
Sep 30, 2013, 11:13 pm
#1881
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,861
Sep 30, 2013, 11:14 pm
#1882
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
I'm getting the sense you might not be a premerger UA million miler. What benefits do you hope to achieve from this litigation if that is the case?
Sep 30, 2013, 11:38 pm
#1883
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
You all certainly have the right to try to read this stuff however you want and to try to litigate to get that reading made the correct one. I wish you the best with that. But I really see a lot of "convenient" reading of the promises here. Some claim that you were promised tier 2 but in fact PE went from tier 2 to tier 3 when GS was introduced (well after the existence of the MM program) and claiming that GS isn't part of MP is disingenuous because it absolutely created a new priority tier above you. Some fasten on the "with all benefits included" phrase as key when all that really seems to say is that they promised you full PE and not some PE lite where you didn't get all of whatever PEs were getting in a given year. I really do suggest that you just try to go unemotionally read the letter that Fredd posted above - it is really remarkably clear. They promised you PE. Not the benefits of PE, not whatever PE happened to get in 2003 or 2005 or whenever - they promised you would belong to the PE tier and that you'd be treated as such. There isn't any ambiguity in that letter. As I said above the only possible ambiguity is in what to map PE to. And there you'll have to make an argument that a category is defined by its resultant benefits rather than by its entry criteria in order to make a case for PE being other than PG. Perhaps you can do that, but I predict it will be extremely hard because in pretty much all fields of endeavor categories are defined by their qualification criteria (and I am not talking FF programs here - I'm talking categories in any field such a science). I understand the unhappiness and I agree that UA has in general screwed many of us. But that doesn't change what they promised and what they are doing.
Oct 1, 2013, 12:06 am
#1884
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
This is a perfect example of what usually happens when regimes change, fear rules, and promised benefits must be fought for, but in the end it is not who lies to themselves first in an attempt to be perceived as being correct, or who appears to have deceived, but rather it is he who has the best double-talking attorney that usually prevails. 
So ask yourselves, would you lay a few thou at 50 to 1 that you are gonna receive 2 retroactive RPU's for each year that you were a MM flyer, some time in the future?
That's what will separate the TRUE believers from the huddled masses!
So ask yourselves, would you lay a few thou at 50 to 1 that you are gonna receive 2 retroactive RPU's for each year that you were a MM flyer, some time in the future?
That's what will separate the TRUE believers from the huddled masses!
Oct 1, 2013, 1:49 am
#1885
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
This is a perfect example of what usually happens when regimes change, fear rules, and promised benefits must be fought for, but in the end it is not who lies to themselves first in an attempt to be perceived as being correct, or who appears to have deceived, but rather it is he who has the best double-talking attorney that usually prevails.
So ask yourselves, would you lay a few thou at 50 to 1 that you are gonna receive 2 retroactive RPU's for each year that you were a MM flyer, some time in the future?
That's what will separate the TRUE believers from the huddled masses!
So ask yourselves, would you lay a few thou at 50 to 1 that you are gonna receive 2 retroactive RPU's for each year that you were a MM flyer, some time in the future?
That's what will separate the TRUE believers from the huddled masses!
You all certainly have the right to try to read this stuff however you want and to try to litigate to get that reading made the correct one. I wish you the best with that. But I really see a lot of "convenient" reading of the promises here. Some claim that you were promised tier 2 but in fact PE went from tier 2 to tier 3 when GS was introduced (well after the existence of the MM program) and claiming that GS isn't part of MP is disingenuous because it absolutely created a new priority tier above you. Some fasten on the "with all benefits included" phrase as key when all that really seems to say is that they promised you full PE and not some PE lite where you didn't get all of whatever PEs were getting in a given year. I really do suggest that you just try to go unemotionally read the letter that Fredd posted above - it is really remarkably clear. They promised you PE. Not the benefits of PE, not whatever PE happened to get in 2003 or 2005 or whenever - they promised you would belong to the PE tier and that you'd be treated as such. There isn't any ambiguity in that letter. As I said above the only possible ambiguity is in what to map PE to. And there you'll have to make an argument that a category is defined by its resultant benefits rather than by its entry criteria in order to make a case for PE being other than PG. Perhaps you can do that, but I predict it will be extremely hard because in pretty much all fields of endeavor categories are defined by their qualification criteria (and I am not talking FF programs here - I'm talking categories in any field such a science). I understand the unhappiness and I agree that UA has in general screwed many of us. But that doesn't change what they promised and what they are doing.
GS is not part of MP it is an invite only, you don't have to fly "x" amount of miles and you get tiers. It's in none of United's MP brochures. UA executives have told me this statement themselves.
Each one of us has a different benefit of their "Million Mile Flyer" that was important to him/her, and that is fine. For me it was the second tier for life (for me). For others, it may have been benefit "B", etc., now we find ourselves on here fighting over the wording, perceptions, etc. about the former program and it's horrible, this should have been properly handled by UA. I don't think anyone here wants more than what was promised for a lifetime. Right now it is not balanced -
- CO Million Milers in the One Pass Program, received lifetime status at 25,000 miles, it was raised to 50,000 in the new program.
- CO Infinite Elites leapfrogged to the top by going from the original 50,000 tier to the 75,000 tier to, finally, 1K for life, the 100,000 tier! Good for them!
Again I'm happy for the COs, I wish them abundance and happiness. United's best customers, those who were on average 1K (and GS) for ten years got all the lifetime benefits taken away and with the new 75,000 mile tier, we were downgraded in the pecking order.
You once mentioned you were a lawyer. To make the pre-merger UA MM Flyers WHOLE again, the most similar slot would be Platinum. Premier Platinum would have been the most gracious thing UA could have done for the PM MM Flyers. Considering the CO crew increased the benefits of possibly millions and millions of their MM, the majority who quite possibly did not even fly 1MM+ and lumped them together with true pre-merger UA MM Flyers.
At 2MM, add UC membership and that's it. That would be after TWENTY years of flying. But now it is a cluster because people have MP accounts with bloated pseudo-lifetime balances.
You can't un-ring a bell...
Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 1, 2013 at 4:45 am Reason: merge
Oct 1, 2013, 3:22 am
#1886
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Some fasten on the "with all benefits included" phrase as key when all that really seems to say is that they promised you full PE and not some PE lite where you didn't get all of whatever PEs were getting in a given year.
...As I said above the only possible ambiguity is in what to map PE to...
Notwithstanding UA's obfuscatory efforts to reduce or remove promised lifetime benefits via this "mapping" strategy, some of us can still discriminate between, say, Shinola and other substances of similar color but significantly different composition.
...To make the pre-merger UA MM Flyers WHOLE again, the most similar slot would be Platinum. Premier Platinum would have been the most gracious thing UA could have done for the PM MM Flyers...
You can't un-ring a bell...
Golly, it just struck me that this might even apply to other aspects of UA's current operations.
Oct 1, 2013, 10:41 am
#1887
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
Originally Posted by UrbaneGent;21533264[B
pdx1M[/B] - I am assuming you became a 3MM when the two programs combined. I say this because you are a GS for life - for now - and it is possible you got it by not flying a portion, however small, even 10 miles, or 100 or 100,000. Unemotionally, I see you as if you are speaking down from your castle tower window. I would like to see them mess with your "GS for life" and see how you would react.
Oct 1, 2013, 1:15 pm
#1888
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K 2.3M Lifetime, Mariott Plat for life
Posts: 49
It's also not an insignificant issue that UA sold tickets based on this incentive and then they did not have to payout to those who made the achievement after the program was altered. In my case, I am now at 2.2M miles and should have been awarded UC for life. Dave
Oct 1, 2013, 1:31 pm
#1889
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: COS
Programs: UA Gold/1.5MM (several years running now!), Marriott LTTE, Hertz Prez
Posts: 1,899
Time for a separate thread?
All, I think it would be nice if we had a separate thread where only actual updates regarding case status were posted. There are one or two very well-known antagonists lurking who have taken great pleasure in stirring the pot at every opportunity. I am interested in this case but it's difficult to read through countless bickering posts in between actual updates, none of which gain any new ground, quite frankly.
Oct 1, 2013, 2:31 pm
#1890
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
-
There are one or two very well-known antagonists lurking who have taken great pleasure in stirring the pot at every opportunity. I am interested in this case but it's difficult to read through countless bickering posts in between actual updates, none of which gain any new ground, quite frankly.
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There are countless million-milers who only recently heard of the class action filed and there are many more each day or week that hear about the case.
It would not be fair to those new folks to restrict their postings to only "actual updates" about a case that is months away from its next scheduled court appearance.
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