Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 23, 2013, 2:27 pm
#1831
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Couldn't care less. At 0 for 17, they are an illusory benefit in any case.
It is the difference between a general promise (e.g., club membership where a club remains available) and a specific benefit (e.g., two regional upgrades a year).
^
Yes. Two regional upgrades a year is pretty specific to me.
Well over 30-years of advertisements by the airlines of the frequent flier benefits they will provide to you, if you fly on them. Course of pattern and practice.
Nor can they eat discount certificates on Hertz.
The way it generally works is that the class gets certain non-monetary benefits (e.g., return of RPUs) and the parties agree that the attorneys will separately receive reasonable fees from the defendant in an amount set by the court.
It's not a question of what's true, but what can you prove. Do you have any evidence that supports these assertions? When I buy a ticket, FF miles are never mentioned in the fare.
If you read my posts I point the CR-1s/RPUs as clearly defined damages. Of course class action attorneys can't eat CR-1s if you get my drift.
The way it generally works is that the class gets certain non-monetary benefits (e.g., return of RPUs) and the parties agree that the attorneys will separately receive reasonable fees from the defendant in an amount set by the court.
Sep 25, 2013, 12:31 pm
#1832
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
I punish United every day in the marketplace, by withholding my loyalty from them.
[...]
Instead, I fly the airline that is most convenient, with the best service and the best fare for my purposes. That usually means Delta or American. If United is the clear winner, I fly them. They lose all ties, since they don't deserve to win.
Although for now I have a slight pref for aa.
Other than ua they still offer upgrade space weeks or months ahead (at
least on some intl routes I'm interested in) where ua has practically zero.
But again this is simple, rational and predictable behavior in a marketplace.
They diminish the rewards for loyalty, and inevitably loyalty diminishes.
It'll be interesting to see what'll be left of airline loyalty programs in a decade or so...
Sep 27, 2013, 7:33 pm
#1833
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Article in the Chicago Tribune today on million milers with mention of this litigation:
Airlines brace for a million-miler march
Just a few lines:
Airlines brace for a million-miler march
Just a few lines:
One reason United isn't talking is that it's the subject of a lawsuit brought by another Million Miler. George Lagen, a Chicago-based frequent flier, sued United in May after the airline reduced his elite status. United has tried to get the case thrown out, claiming that it has the right to modify its frequent-flier program, but in late January, a federal judge refused to dismiss the case.
Lagen's case is one of several lawsuits against United resulting from changes that occurred after it merged with Continental Airlines and began trimming the benefits of its combined frequent-flier program. But the Million Miler dustup is the most closely watched, not just among frequent travelers but also within the airline industry. Although incremental devaluations of frequent-flier programs aren't unusual, this marks the first time that a major airline has made such dramatic downgrades for its most established customers. If United prevails in court, it will almost certainly embolden other airlines to take similar steps.
Lagen's case is one of several lawsuits against United resulting from changes that occurred after it merged with Continental Airlines and began trimming the benefits of its combined frequent-flier program. But the Million Miler dustup is the most closely watched, not just among frequent travelers but also within the airline industry. Although incremental devaluations of frequent-flier programs aren't unusual, this marks the first time that a major airline has made such dramatic downgrades for its most established customers. If United prevails in court, it will almost certainly embolden other airlines to take similar steps.
Sep 27, 2013, 7:45 pm
#1834
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Interesting snippet Tom of that Chris Elliot article in the Chicago Tribune ... this piece caught my eye -
=========
If you don't like some of the recent changes to your airline loyalty program, talk to Mike Croswell. He's a United Airlines "Million Miler" who assumed that his three decades of devotion to the airline would be reciprocated after he stopped being a frequent flier.
He assumed wrong.
"The money I spent chasing Million Mile status is without a doubt the poorest investment of my career," says Croswell, who lives in Aspen, Colo., and joined United's frequent-flier program, MileagePlus, in 1983. "I have zero benefits that were promised to me."
Million Milers are, as the name suggests, air travelers who have given their long-term loyalty to one airline. In exchange for flying a million miles, they're typically offered lifetime "elite" status that includes access to upgrades, preferred treatment and other perks reserved for an airline's top customers.
But as airlines begin to aggressively restructure their frequent-flier programs, some veteran air travelers who have retired but were depending on the benefits they worked for while they were still frequent fliers have found that their airlines are no longer treating them like the valued customers they thought they were.
Croswell says that his benefits have evaporated since United's merger with Continental. Gone are many of the upgrades and other perks, and his boarding pass doesn't even note his "Million Miler" status anymore.
"Imagine putting money in a savings account, and the day you go to redeem the promised return, they say, 'Sorry, we changed the rules. Your money is worth nothing now,'" he says. "I feel betrayed."
United Airlines did not respond directly to Croswell's criticisms and would not provide a representative of its MileagePlus program for an interview. But Charles Hobart, a spokesman for the airline, said that United's loyalty program is "very generous to customers who have been loyal to us in the past."
etc, etc.
=========
That one piece alone will cost UA more in bad PR in a fortress hub, than giving all MM'ers the 2 x annual CRIs they clearly promised in writing would have cost.
UA fighting this is madness on the PR front.
Do NOT promise MILLION MILERS things on your own website that you later state was not a promise in any way! And remove a "LIFETIME" benefit all MMs were promised in writing for years on end. It just will not fly.
=========
If you don't like some of the recent changes to your airline loyalty program, talk to Mike Croswell. He's a United Airlines "Million Miler" who assumed that his three decades of devotion to the airline would be reciprocated after he stopped being a frequent flier.
He assumed wrong.
"The money I spent chasing Million Mile status is without a doubt the poorest investment of my career," says Croswell, who lives in Aspen, Colo., and joined United's frequent-flier program, MileagePlus, in 1983. "I have zero benefits that were promised to me."
Million Milers are, as the name suggests, air travelers who have given their long-term loyalty to one airline. In exchange for flying a million miles, they're typically offered lifetime "elite" status that includes access to upgrades, preferred treatment and other perks reserved for an airline's top customers.
But as airlines begin to aggressively restructure their frequent-flier programs, some veteran air travelers who have retired but were depending on the benefits they worked for while they were still frequent fliers have found that their airlines are no longer treating them like the valued customers they thought they were.
Croswell says that his benefits have evaporated since United's merger with Continental. Gone are many of the upgrades and other perks, and his boarding pass doesn't even note his "Million Miler" status anymore.
"Imagine putting money in a savings account, and the day you go to redeem the promised return, they say, 'Sorry, we changed the rules. Your money is worth nothing now,'" he says. "I feel betrayed."
United Airlines did not respond directly to Croswell's criticisms and would not provide a representative of its MileagePlus program for an interview. But Charles Hobart, a spokesman for the airline, said that United's loyalty program is "very generous to customers who have been loyal to us in the past."
etc, etc.
=========
That one piece alone will cost UA more in bad PR in a fortress hub, than giving all MM'ers the 2 x annual CRIs they clearly promised in writing would have cost.
UA fighting this is madness on the PR front.
Do NOT promise MILLION MILERS things on your own website that you later state was not a promise in any way! And remove a "LIFETIME" benefit all MMs were promised in writing for years on end. It just will not fly.
Last edited by ozstamps; Sep 28, 2013 at 1:58 am
Sep 27, 2013, 7:49 pm
#1835
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
United Airlines did not respond directly to Croswell's criticisms and would not provide a representative of its MileagePlus program for an interview. But Charles Hobart, a spokesman for the airline, said that United's loyalty program is "very generous to customers who have been loyal to us in the past."[/I]
Sep 27, 2013, 8:23 pm
#1836
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Flyin
You just want to argue nonsense for the sake of argument and I have neither the time nor the desire.
As to the CPU "benefit", however, at 0 for 17 this year for me, it is not much of a benefit for a Gold anyway.
So you are OK with MM flyers not being eligible for CPUs?
Originally Posted by Always Flyin
You just want to argue nonsense for the sake of argument and I have neither the time nor the desire.
As to the CPU "benefit", however, at 0 for 17 this year for me, it is not much of a benefit for a Gold anyway.
So you are OK with MM flyers not being eligible for CPUs?
But it is a silly question as CPU was on PMUA. In addition to CR1 (RPU)
Sep 27, 2013, 10:48 pm
#1837
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Great article - and why this lawsuit is so much more important than just to the pre-merger UA Million Mile Flyers. This is going to have ripple effects across industries promising LIFETIME benefits to their customers.
If the judge sides with UA, the system will fall apart; consumers will not believe a company promising lifetime benefits. I don't see how there would be any consumer confidence, since a company, promising LIFETIME benefits, can change it's promises whenever.
"LIFETIME" means exactly that. If we lose, I will respect the judge's decision, but it will be such a sad moment.
As for the United Club example about the no alcohol or closing down some clubs. That is different and they know it. Lifetime Club membership did not promise benefit "A: There will always be a club in cities a,b,c, etc"; "B: Unlimited free alcohol in every club for a LIFETIME."; "C: Hours will ALWAYS be 9-10"
You bought a LIFETIME membership to an airline CLUB, not a membership with certain promised benefits. You also paid what $300?
I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to UA to become a Million Mile Flyer with the anticipation of the LIFETIME PROMISED BENEFITS that came with it. Most important to me (just myself) was that it came with Premier Executive status which was second tier in the Mileage Plus Program for the two+ decades I flew with UA.
There were clearly defined LIFETIME benefits in the Million Miles and More Program: LIFETIME BENEFIT A, LIFETIME BENEFIT B, LIFETIME BENEFIT C - all taken away more than a year ago. Terrible.
If the judge sides with UA, the system will fall apart; consumers will not believe a company promising lifetime benefits. I don't see how there would be any consumer confidence, since a company, promising LIFETIME benefits, can change it's promises whenever.
"LIFETIME" means exactly that. If we lose, I will respect the judge's decision, but it will be such a sad moment.
As for the United Club example about the no alcohol or closing down some clubs. That is different and they know it. Lifetime Club membership did not promise benefit "A: There will always be a club in cities a,b,c, etc"; "B: Unlimited free alcohol in every club for a LIFETIME."; "C: Hours will ALWAYS be 9-10"
You bought a LIFETIME membership to an airline CLUB, not a membership with certain promised benefits. You also paid what $300?
I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to UA to become a Million Mile Flyer with the anticipation of the LIFETIME PROMISED BENEFITS that came with it. Most important to me (just myself) was that it came with Premier Executive status which was second tier in the Mileage Plus Program for the two+ decades I flew with UA.
There were clearly defined LIFETIME benefits in the Million Miles and More Program: LIFETIME BENEFIT A, LIFETIME BENEFIT B, LIFETIME BENEFIT C - all taken away more than a year ago. Terrible.
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Sep 27, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Sep 28, 2013, 8:55 am
#1838
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
Rewarding One Million Miles and Beyond
If you have flown one million, two million or three million miles, or more, on http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ngue.gifUnited, we congratulate you on these incredible milestones. To show how much we appreciate your remarkable loyalty, there are different levels of rewards. We are delighted to offer the following to our very best customers:
1 Million Mile Rewards
When you have flown one million lifetime base flight miles on United and United Express, you are rewarded with some exclusive benefits including:
Premier Executive® status for life. Learn about the benefits (hyperlink)
Two (2) Regional Upgrades at the end of every year
Three (3) Systemwide Upgrades to use for a one-class, one-way upgrade on United or United Express flights to any destination we fly worldwide, subject to terms and conditions.
If you have flown one million, two million or three million miles, or more, on http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ngue.gifUnited, we congratulate you on these incredible milestones. To show how much we appreciate your remarkable loyalty, there are different levels of rewards. We are delighted to offer the following to our very best customers:
1 Million Mile Rewards
When you have flown one million lifetime base flight miles on United and United Express, you are rewarded with some exclusive benefits including:
Premier Executive® status for life. Learn about the benefits (hyperlink)
Two (2) Regional Upgrades at the end of every year
Three (3) Systemwide Upgrades to use for a one-class, one-way upgrade on United or United Express flights to any destination we fly worldwide, subject to terms and conditions.
There are 2 ways to decide what PE should be:
- By qualification definition: i.e., to be a PE you had to fly 50K and the equivalent now is PG.
- By implied benefits: PE gave you certain rights (e.g., 100% bonus) and PP provides benefits closer to those.
Personally I think of tiers as defined by their qualifications since their associated benefits can and have changed over the year but I accept that the other alternative is what many here believe. In either case, this entire issue really comes down to only these 2 issues regarding pmUA's promises
the regional upgrades and the PE to new program mapping
All the rest of the stuff really isn't relevant.
Sep 28, 2013, 9:47 am
#1839
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
W
w -- what an excellent summary of the whole situation!
w -- what an excellent summary of the whole situation!
Sep 28, 2013, 10:08 am
#1840
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: AADULtArer
Posts: 5,693
"Imagine putting money in a savings account, and the day you go to redeem the promised return, they say, 'Sorry, we changed the rules. Your money is worth nothing now,'" he says. "I feel betrayed."
Im sorry for the people who chased this stuff. I have Enron stock to my credit.
Sep 28, 2013, 10:19 am
#1841
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
I guess, since the United management believed that elites were over entitled, United decided to take away some benefits. Unfortunately, pre- merger United Million Milers and Premier Executives seem to have lost the most. As a result, United lost a lot of trust - and a number of very frequent flyers.
Now, a court may decide if what United did was within their rights. More likely, there will be a settlement.
Hopefully, a return to the "Friendly Skies" may signify a return to a more friendly attitude toward elites and some new approach to dealing with the concerns set out in this lawsuit. (Well, I can dream, can't I?)
Sep 28, 2013, 10:49 am
#1842
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
I did not claim that the choices UA made here were moral, "friendly", or business "savvy". It might have been smart for them to have actually done a one time "gift" of some sort to welcome all the long term customers to the new-UA (miles, couple of upgrades, whatever). Certainly I, as a long time senior manager, would have considered doing that. We did it for internal purposes when some major corporate changes happened and it generated good will far beyond its monetary value. They clearly chose to take, for the most part, the low road and there are ample threads here discussing whether those choices have weakened the business performance of the resulting company. The path they chose saddens me as well and it has cost UA a decent amount of business from me. All I was trying to do here is to frame the actual question regarding the MM suit amid a lot of often over-the-top angst.
Sep 28, 2013, 10:58 am
#1843
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to UA to become a Million Mile Flyer with the anticipation of the LIFETIME PROMISED BENEFITS that came with it. Most important to me (just myself) was that it came with Premier Executive status which was second tier in the Mileage Plus Program for the two+ decades I flew with UA.
Sep 28, 2013, 11:05 am
#1844
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,511
I keep hoping that this lawsuit, through discovery or otherwise, will shed some light on the process by which some of these MM decisions were reached by UA. Were these the recommendations/ideas of an inter-airline working group which the executives simply signed off on or did senior management direct the lower levels to cut back on MM benefits and this is what they came up with?
Sep 28, 2013, 11:21 am
#1845
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Loyal to Myself
Posts: 8,303
For those who wish to give United a bellyache, a few dozen (or more) emails to analysts following the stock from Million Mile and 1k flyers who have ended their loyalty to United over this and United's operational issues would probably have an outsized effect.
Noting this thread, it's clear that there is going to be some increasing scrutiny of United's financial delivery moving forward... and getting into the heads of the analysts who follow the stock is an entirely different way to apply pressure to management to get it's act together.
A series of emails describing why you shifted loyalty and how much you travel could have quite the influence, if it is done with patience and level heads.
Noting this thread, it's clear that there is going to be some increasing scrutiny of United's financial delivery moving forward... and getting into the heads of the analysts who follow the stock is an entirely different way to apply pressure to management to get it's act together.
A series of emails describing why you shifted loyalty and how much you travel could have quite the influence, if it is done with patience and level heads.