Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 30, 2013, 4:40 pm
#1861
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Sorry, I must disagree with what you wrote.
Please note the below highlighted excerpt from a UA document that was applicable to UA customers who attained million-mile status. The excerpt discusses the benefits that are offered to those who attain million-mile status (the old fashioned UA method):
"-LIFETIME PREMIER EXECUTIVE (1P) STATUS INCLUSIVE OF ALL PREMIER EXECUTIVE BENEFITS."
Although there is no longer a Premier Executive, the language is clear that million-milers would receive listed benefits, retain the title of PE and would receive "all Premier Executive Benefits" which included as a benefit, second tier.
When a UA document states "inclusive of all PE benefits" the documents means, precisely that, inclusive of ALL benefits, nothing more, nothing less.
UA changing the name of the title "Premier Executive" does not change the substance of the initial promises made by UA. After all, most of us know that a rose by any other name is still a rose.
-
Please note the below highlighted excerpt from a UA document that was applicable to UA customers who attained million-mile status. The excerpt discusses the benefits that are offered to those who attain million-mile status (the old fashioned UA method):
"-LIFETIME PREMIER EXECUTIVE (1P) STATUS INCLUSIVE OF ALL PREMIER EXECUTIVE BENEFITS."
Although there is no longer a Premier Executive, the language is clear that million-milers would receive listed benefits, retain the title of PE and would receive "all Premier Executive Benefits" which included as a benefit, second tier.
When a UA document states "inclusive of all PE benefits" the documents means, precisely that, inclusive of ALL benefits, nothing more, nothing less.
UA changing the name of the title "Premier Executive" does not change the substance of the initial promises made by UA. After all, most of us know that a rose by any other name is still a rose.
-
Congratulations on reaching one million miles.
Your accomplishment of flying one million miles is a significant milestone.
In recognition, you've been awarded lifetime Premier Executive® status as a sincere thank you. Of course, since you have already earned 1K® status, you will retain those benefits as long as you meet the requirements.
Congratulations on reaching one million miles.
Your accomplishment of flying one million miles is a significant milestone.
In recognition, you've been awarded lifetime Premier Executive® status as a sincere thank you. Of course, since you have already earned 1K® status, you will retain those benefits as long as you meet the requirements.
And, to enhance your travel experience even more, you'll also receive the following benefits:
Once again, congratulations on reaching this important milestone.
Best Regards,
Your Mileage Plus Team
Your accomplishment of flying one million miles is a significant milestone.
In recognition, you've been awarded lifetime Premier Executive® status as a sincere thank you. Of course, since you have already earned 1K® status, you will retain those benefits as long as you meet the requirements.
Congratulations on reaching one million miles.
Your accomplishment of flying one million miles is a significant milestone.
In recognition, you've been awarded lifetime Premier Executive® status as a sincere thank you. Of course, since you have already earned 1K® status, you will retain those benefits as long as you meet the requirements.
And, to enhance your travel experience even more, you'll also receive the following benefits:
- Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
- Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
Once again, congratulations on reaching this important milestone.
Best Regards,
Your Mileage Plus Team
As long-time FTer PremEx stated in this 2005 post:
United purposefully does not officially use the nomenclature of Million "Miler" like some other airlines do where you can earn that status as a result of many (or any) sources of miles. United calls a Million Miler a "Million Mile Flyer" because their MM status is awarded only from actual flight miles.
Sep 30, 2013, 7:34 pm
#1862
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
Fredd -
Great - so you are agreeing that what UA promised you was PE for life. That is all I have been saying. The question in need of settlement is what PE should correspond to in the new program. None of this discussion is about the bonus percentage, hours to upgrade, etc. It is about what PE should now mean. We have agreed, I think, to disagree on that one. For the record, the reason that I believe PE should map to PG is that if you were to ask 100 people to describe PE 5 years ago I am pretty convinced that 98 of them (and I am being generous) would have started their explanation of be by saying something like "PE is the status you earn on UA for accruing 50K qualifying miles in a year". They might have then gone on to tell you about what getting PE would give you. This corresponds to most category definitions in most fields - i.e., you define the category by what it takes to be in the category and not by the results of being in the category. I understand that you want to define PE by the results of being in the category but I think that is a pretty hard sell in a court of any sort given the widespread use of the other way of defining categories. (Just as an e.g., this entire discussion defines a MMer as someone who flew 1M BIS miles - not as someone who UA gave PE for life and 2 annual RPUs to. For your definition of PE to work you'd likewise have to be defining MMer that way and no one here has done that - all have used the category entrance criteria as the definition.)
Great - so you are agreeing that what UA promised you was PE for life. That is all I have been saying. The question in need of settlement is what PE should correspond to in the new program. None of this discussion is about the bonus percentage, hours to upgrade, etc. It is about what PE should now mean. We have agreed, I think, to disagree on that one. For the record, the reason that I believe PE should map to PG is that if you were to ask 100 people to describe PE 5 years ago I am pretty convinced that 98 of them (and I am being generous) would have started their explanation of be by saying something like "PE is the status you earn on UA for accruing 50K qualifying miles in a year". They might have then gone on to tell you about what getting PE would give you. This corresponds to most category definitions in most fields - i.e., you define the category by what it takes to be in the category and not by the results of being in the category. I understand that you want to define PE by the results of being in the category but I think that is a pretty hard sell in a court of any sort given the widespread use of the other way of defining categories. (Just as an e.g., this entire discussion defines a MMer as someone who flew 1M BIS miles - not as someone who UA gave PE for life and 2 annual RPUs to. For your definition of PE to work you'd likewise have to be defining MMer that way and no one here has done that - all have used the category entrance criteria as the definition.)
Sep 30, 2013, 8:12 pm
#1863
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
All I want are the lifetime benefits UA promised me.
Most reasonable FTers agree that UA has devalued the program, once one peers through the smoke and behind the mirrors.
I have said from the outset that the category closest to PE in the new program is so-called Platinum. Could I live with that and think UA was being roughly fair? Yes.
However, what I really want are the lifetime benefits UA promised me.
It's that simple. YMMV
Sep 30, 2013, 9:16 pm
#1864
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: 대한민국 (South Korea) - ex-PVG (上海)
Programs: UA MM / LT Gold (LT UC), DL SM, AA PLT (AC), OZ, KE; GE and Korean SES (like GE); Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,995
I agree with the OP; they should get Lifetime Platinum status. ALL of us should be concerned that OUR lifetime status might be diminished upon a unilateral decision by UA at any time. When I made MM, I was given Lifetime Gold. I usually make 1k, but want to keep the Gold status into my retirement years as my business travel slacks off. I guess UA could alter my status to Silver (or even none) if they wanted to. I asked about the four filghts per year and miminum spend annually, and was told that Lifetime Gold would continue, but I'm not sure I can trust UA over the span of years in the future.
Sep 30, 2013, 9:20 pm
#1865
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
UA promised you "...lifetime Premier Executive® status [and] ...the following benefits:
- Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
- Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
You presumably received the three SWUs immediately. We all agree that UA reneged
n its commitment to two confirmed regional upgrades every year.
Would you still claim it is closest to Platinum if UA had not renamed the tiers? In that case UA would still have a PE status that offers different benefits now than it did then. Even PP currently offers a different set of benefits than those you seek.
UA promised you lifetime PE status, not any specific annual benefits other than the one discussed above.
- Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
- Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
You presumably received the three SWUs immediately. We all agree that UA reneged
n its commitment to two confirmed regional upgrades every year.
...I have said from the outset that the category closest to PE in the new program is so-called Platinum. Could I live with that and think UA was being roughly fair? Yes.
However, what I really want are the lifetime benefits UA promised me.
It's that simple. YMMV
It's that simple. YMMV
Sep 30, 2013, 9:32 pm
#1866
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
UA promised you "...lifetime Premier Executive® status [and] ...the following benefits:
- Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
- Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
You presumably received the three SWUs immediately. We all agree that UA reneged
n its commitment to two confirmed regional upgrades every year.Would you still claim it is closest to Platinum if UA had not renamed the tiers? In that case UA would still have a PE status that offers different benefits now than it did then. Even PP currently offers a different set of benefits than those you seek.
UA promised you lifetime PE status, not any specific annual benefits other than the one discussed above.
-
"-LIFETIME PREMIER EXECUTIVE (1P) STATUS INCLUSIVE OF ALL PREMIER EXECUTIVE BENEFITS."
Therein lies the promises - "inclusive of all Premier Executive benefits."
There were a number of benefits awarded for being Premier Executive which included second tier ranking.
I am not clear how one can have access to a document prepared by UA but only read a portion of the document, despite the entire document making the benefits more precise.
Considering that UA said "inclusive of all premier executive benefits" how can it be that all benefits are not part of the entire package?
-
Last edited by dgcpaphd; Sep 30, 2013 at 9:40 pm
Sep 30, 2013, 9:45 pm
#1867
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
t try to argue that the status remained constant throughout the life of the program. That clearly did not occur.
Sep 30, 2013, 9:53 pm
#1868
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
From my viewpoint, awarding me a new status of Platinum isn't adequate as that does not come with the 100% bonus miles that came along with PE. UA would need to put me in somewhere between 1K and Platinum and restore the benefits I was promised.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:03 pm
#1869
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
What, exactly, changed over time? I recall back in 1993-1994 when I was first PE I received 100% bonus miles, and was also receiving those until UA pulled the rug out from under me in 2011 and awarded me some other status that I did not ask for and never agreed to. Can you expand on what changed between 1993 and 2011? I just can't think of any PE benefit that was taken away from me while I was still a PE. The changes happened after UA made me something else.
From my viewpoint, awarding me a new status of Platinum isn't adequate as that does not come with the 100% bonus miles that came along with PE. UA would need to put me in somewhere between 1K and Platinum and restore the benefits I was promised.
From my viewpoint, awarding me a new status of Platinum isn't adequate as that does not come with the 100% bonus miles that came along with PE. UA would need to put me in somewhere between 1K and Platinum and restore the benefits I was promised.
There were no downgrades in the PE program from 1993-2011. Only upgrades and those upgrades were also included into the One Million Miler benefits.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:06 pm
#1870
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
The only downgrade happened before the MM program was instituted. PE was top tier then they made 1K shoving PE to second tier. But again, that was before the MM program came about.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:15 pm
#1871
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
uld never be altered.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:20 pm
#1872
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
There was nothing in my letter from UA, congratulating me on attaining 1MMer, about taking any benefits away. Was there something in your premerger million miler letter from UA that said they could change things? I took "lifetime" to mean "lifetime" and not Tuesday.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:25 pm
#1873
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
For the record, the reason that I believe PE should map to PG is that if you were to ask 100 people to describe PE 5 years ago I am pretty convinced that 98 of them (and I am being generous) would have started their explanation of be by saying something like "PE is the status you earn on UA for accruing 50K qualifying miles in a year".
HOWEVER, Give 100 people the million miler benefits of three airlines UA, CO, and AA and then ask them what the differences are, 98% would say (and I can hear it now in a mall in New Jersey), "United MM would get 2 tier for life, the other two get third tier".
What you are doing is looking at PE all alone, for what it is. When you do, you get the tier at 50,000 miles. But when it comes to the lifetime benefits of the Million Mile Flyer program, I don't see it as a mile threshhold, I see it as where am I on the pecking order.
Do you realized that the average Million Mile Flyer took 10 years to become one? That means that a Million Mile Flyer was one of UA's top customers, was for TEN YEARS a 1K or 1K GS (like myself). Their best flyers. Do you think for one moment when I thought of Premier Executive for life I thought of a 50,000 threshhold? Or any of my other fellow MMile Flyers? Hail no! Because it wasn't significant to me (and I will bet my fellow MM Flyers) except where it was in the pecking order. Why would any lifetime PE care about the 50,000 mile, it was LIFETIME.
The only time PE was ever in my radar was the very first year I was with UA and I crossed the 50,000 mile threshold. After that I was a 1K for 15 years, I never had to deal with 50,000 mile anything. I was always shooting for 1K.
The thing is UA f'ed up big time - here you have your best customers: 1Ks and MM Flyers and they take back their promises. You are they guy who others look at to see which airline they should fly; their biggest brand ambassadors. And United goes and messes with what their BEST customers loved most about the airline: their Million Mile Flyer status, the upgrade process, offering TODs when they are promising free upgrades.
And this is what the lawsuit is all about.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 30, 2013 at 11:09 pm Reason: merge
Sep 30, 2013, 10:34 pm
#1874
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
You are absolutely 100% right, 98% would say, "PE is the status you earn on UA for accruing 50K miles a year. Because, well, that's the truth.
HOWEVER, Give 100 people the million miler benefits of three airlines UA, CO, and AA and then ask them what the differences are, 98% would say (and I can hear it now in a mall in New Jersey), "United MM would get 2 tier for life, the other two get third tier".
What you are doing is looking at PE all alone, for what it is. When you do, you get the tier at 50,000 miles. But when it comes to the lifetime benefits of the Million Mile Flyer program, I don't see it as a mile threshhold, I see it as where am I on the pecking order.
Do you realized that the average Million Mile Flyer took 10 years to become one? That means that a Million Mile Flyer was one of UA's top customers, was for TEN YEARS a 1K or 1K GS (like myself). Their best flyers. Do you think for one moment when I thought of Premier Executive for life I thought of a 50,000 threshhold? Or any of my other fellow MMile Flyers? Hail no! Because it wasn't significant to me (and I will bet my fellow MM Flyers) except where it was in the pecking order. Why would any lifetime PE care about the 50,000 mile, it was LIFETIME.
The only time PE was ever in my radar was the very first year I was with UA and I crossed the 50,000 mile threshold. After that I was a 1K for 15 years, I never had to deal with 50,000 mile anything. I was always shooting for 1K.
The thing is UA f'ed up big time - here you have your best customers: 1Ks and MM Flyers and they take back their promises. You are they guy who others look at to see which airline they should fly; their biggest brand ambassadors. And United goes and messes with what their BEST customers loved most about the airline: their Million Mile Flyer status, the upgrade process, offering TODs when they are promising free upgrades.
HOWEVER, Give 100 people the million miler benefits of three airlines UA, CO, and AA and then ask them what the differences are, 98% would say (and I can hear it now in a mall in New Jersey), "United MM would get 2 tier for life, the other two get third tier".
What you are doing is looking at PE all alone, for what it is. When you do, you get the tier at 50,000 miles. But when it comes to the lifetime benefits of the Million Mile Flyer program, I don't see it as a mile threshhold, I see it as where am I on the pecking order.
Do you realized that the average Million Mile Flyer took 10 years to become one? That means that a Million Mile Flyer was one of UA's top customers, was for TEN YEARS a 1K or 1K GS (like myself). Their best flyers. Do you think for one moment when I thought of Premier Executive for life I thought of a 50,000 threshhold? Or any of my other fellow MMile Flyers? Hail no! Because it wasn't significant to me (and I will bet my fellow MM Flyers) except where it was in the pecking order. Why would any lifetime PE care about the 50,000 mile, it was LIFETIME.
The only time PE was ever in my radar was the very first year I was with UA and I crossed the 50,000 mile threshold. After that I was a 1K for 15 years, I never had to deal with 50,000 mile anything. I was always shooting for 1K.
The thing is UA f'ed up big time - here you have your best customers: 1Ks and MM Flyers and they take back their promises. You are they guy who others look at to see which airline they should fly; their biggest brand ambassadors. And United goes and messes with what their BEST customers loved most about the airline: their Million Mile Flyer status, the upgrade process, offering TODs when they are promising free upgrades.
) it gets that far. I feel I had about as much invested in it as those that made it on 12/31/11.
Sep 30, 2013, 10:35 pm
#1875
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
I realize it may not be the exact topic for this particular thread, but this is probably a place to point out that the PMCO MM program offered the lifetime spouse benefit. I am pretty sure that this was specified to be for the lifetime of the spouse (so that person would maintain status in the event of the death of the MM). I am pretty sure this is no longer the case. Such detail, if my recollection is correct, would be the same situation as the missing RPU instruments, a specifically defined benefit that was summarily changed/rem
ved. I would be interested to hear what others recall about this. Feel free to start a new thread or to PM me.