Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 15, 2013, 12:15 am
#1801
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Hardly. In fact, you have probably spread more misinformation in this thread than anyone else.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
Someone is obviously going through the time, effort and money to fight for me and I for one care what is going on and what others on here have to say (minus the "noise").
Also, Monsieur blueman, think of it this way, what keeps UA from changing it AGAIN when you do get to 2MM? There is so much more to this than just a group of MMile Flyers. It affects everyone who has been promised LIFETIME benefits in any program. If you have noticed, BA has just started a similar program with "Lifetime" benefits. What does "lifetime" mean? Starwood and American Airlines also have "lifetime" benefits after hitting some benchmarks. So there's more to this suit (and hopefully, class action) then just us.
If the judge sides with us in January, it's going to have ripple effects to other programs as well. If the judge sides with UA, then it will still have ripple effects. Regardless, it will go into the law books.
Sep 15, 2013, 6:22 am
#1802
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Feel free to opt out of the class if you feel that way.
Hardly. In fact, you have probably spread more misinformation in this thread than anyone else.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
Hardly. In fact, you have probably spread more misinformation in this thread than anyone else.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
I mean if you're going to sit here and be mean to me that's cool and all, it is the internet after all. But you are doing a disservice to the people that come here for actual information.
The issues here aren't unique or special. The class members haven't really suffered any great life altering injury. The case will be settled and forgotten. Such is the way of things. I know it's hard especially when looking at things from the Plaintiff side of life, but it's true.
Last edited by colpuck; Sep 15, 2013 at 6:32 am
Sep 16, 2013, 1:36 am
#1803
Moderator: Mileage Run, United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The City/Honolulu
Programs: UA 3MM; Hyatt Glob*****; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,473
Hardly. In fact, you have probably spread more misinformation in this thread than anyone else.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
You are not a Million Miler, are not a lawyer, have demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about on the legal issues at play here, and do a disservice to everyone else who is a MM miler, cares about this case, and follows this thread for legitimate information.
You cannot imagine, tonight sitting here, reading your words, how proud you have made me be a part of this forum. You are exactly right on every single point. Every. Single. Point. The arrogance of some astound me. I actually believe some get a "high" from provoking others, hence the random babble of others.
Someone is obviously going through the time, effort and money to fight for me and I for one care what is going on and what others on here have to say (minus the "noise").
Also, Monsieur blueman, think of it this way, what keeps UA from changing it AGAIN when you do get to 2MM? There is so much more to this than just a group of MMile Flyers. It affects everyone who has been promised LIFETIME benefits in any program. If you have noticed, BA has just started a similar program with "Lifetime" benefits. What does "lifetime" mean? Starwood and American Airlines also have "lifetime" benefits after hitting some benchmarks. So there's more to this suit (and hopefully, class action) then just us.
If the judge sides with us in January, it's going to have ripple effects to other programs as well. If the judge sides with UA, then it will still have ripple effects. Regardless, it will go into the law books.
Someone is obviously going through the time, effort and money to fight for me and I for one care what is going on and what others on here have to say (minus the "noise").
Also, Monsieur blueman, think of it this way, what keeps UA from changing it AGAIN when you do get to 2MM? There is so much more to this than just a group of MMile Flyers. It affects everyone who has been promised LIFETIME benefits in any program. If you have noticed, BA has just started a similar program with "Lifetime" benefits. What does "lifetime" mean? Starwood and American Airlines also have "lifetime" benefits after hitting some benchmarks. So there's more to this suit (and hopefully, class action) then just us.
If the judge sides with us in January, it's going to have ripple effects to other programs as well. If the judge sides with UA, then it will still have ripple effects. Regardless, it will go into the law books.
I been away from this thread for a week or so because sometimes it takes too much energy to slog through the noise. I did find a surprising number of similarities in the $0 fare thread with the added extras of self-appointed arbiters of morals and ethics of purchasing that ticket. It was an exhausting week!
I will be crossing 2MM next month, a bit saddened by the fact that I will not receive lifetime club access, or the threshold extra SWUs. But honestly with PreCheck I don't have to get there early to deal with long lines and I often don't have extra time to waste in the club, except on connections. Just trying to make lemonade out of the lemons Jeff handed me.
Last edited by Pat89339; Sep 16, 2013 at 1:46 am
Sep 16, 2013, 5:16 am
#1804
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Colpuck I recall posted that he is '1K For Life' as he was one of that weird little gaggle of 20 year old CO flyers who got lucky at the right time, for flying 50K miles a year on CO.
BIG contribution to 2013 revenues that bunch.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
Yes it is the internet.
BIG contribution to 2013 revenues that bunch.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
Yes it is the internet.
Sep 16, 2013, 6:42 am
#1805
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Colpuck I recall posted that he is '1K For Life' as he was one of that weird little gaggle of 20 year old CO flyers who got lucky at the right time, for flying 50K miles a year on CO.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
.
Perhaps my math is off, or pmUA flyers want pmCO folks to have some 3/5ths compromise?
Internet or not, accuracy would be helpful. And this is FT, not Yahoo. I may not always agree with colpuck, but name-calling and "denigration**" are uncalled for here.
**Ironic that you denigrate all of the CO "Infinite Elites" in the same post where you note you yourself are. Pot, meet kettle.
Sep 16, 2013, 6:50 am
#1806
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Sigh, some folks read or understand nothing of the past.
FIVE (5) years at 50K a year, 20 years back got you Infinite Elite. And that 250,000 miles got you "1K For Life" in the Texan Takeover - TWO tiers above United flyers who did a MILLION BIS miles. That is the real Math for you.
If you think that is comparing Apples With Apples you need to do a Math refresher course.
Many of those who got IE have passed away, it was that long ago.
Totally insane and unbalanced decisions like that is why folks take this company to court. @:-)
.
Sep 16, 2013, 7:50 am
#1807
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Colpuck I recall posted that he is '1K For Life' as he was one of that weird little gaggle of 20 year old CO flyers who got lucky at the right time, for flying 50K miles a year on CO.
BIG contribution to 2013 revenues that bunch.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
Yes it is the internet.
BIG contribution to 2013 revenues that bunch.
The rest of those who actually flew MILLIONS of BIS miles he is not interested in, indeed has spent hours denigrating what they have done, and relentlessly bagging their attempts to rescue even the most basic benefits promised to them in writing in the past.
Yes it is the internet.
Sep 21, 2013, 11:57 am
#1808
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
Sep 21, 2013, 12:04 pm
#1809
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Sigh, some folks read or understand nothing of the past.
FIVE (5) years at 50K a year, 20 years back got you Infinite Elite. And that 250,000 miles got you "1K For Life" in the Texan Takeover - TWO tiers above United flyers who did a MILLION BIS miles. That is the real Math for you.
.
FIVE (5) years at 50K a year, 20 years back got you Infinite Elite. And that 250,000 miles got you "1K For Life" in the Texan Takeover - TWO tiers above United flyers who did a MILLION BIS miles. That is the real Math for you.
.
I do agree with the fact that some CO flyers are Infinite Elite who didn't fly as much as UA did.
However, your bitterness and divisiveness cloud your thoughts and clearly your posts.
Last edited by aacharya; Sep 21, 2013 at 12:35 pm
Sep 21, 2013, 1:43 pm
#1810
Used to be MBS PremExec
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Saginaw, MI (MBS)
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Marriott Titanium w/Lifetime Plat, Hilton LIfetime ♢, National Exec, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,722
That is not what you wrote. I need not requote your own verbiage about 20-year old CO flyers (and not what you've rewritten as 20 years ago). (I imagined you meant 20-year flyers, but who knows anymore - and English is your first language)?
I do agree with the fact that some CO flyers are Infinite Elite who didn't fly as much as UA did.
However, your bitterness and divisiveness cloud your thoughts and clearly your posts.
I do agree with the fact that some CO flyers are Infinite Elite who didn't fly as much as UA did.
However, your bitterness and divisiveness cloud your thoughts and clearly your posts.
)...You know as well as everyone else what he meant. Twenty years ago, fly as little as 250,000 miles on CO, get promised "gold for life", but at merger time, get 2 status tiers ahead of what real million milers get...And yes, this deal was available only to legacy CO folks...Can't you even remotely see why we UA MMers feel slighted?
Apologies for any grammatical or spelling errors, I'm typing on my phone from seat 8A on a CRJ, about to take off.
Sep 21, 2013, 1:56 pm
#1811
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
I'm perfectly aware how UA MMs feel about Infinite Elites. How does it matter (especially the attack of such posters) with respect to this thread (MM file suit against UA)?
As for Rule 5, the internet has no such accepted rule.....I think (lots of rules out there, but not any like you noted).
Sep 21, 2013, 2:30 pm
#1812
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: Loyal to Myself
Posts: 8,303
I appreciate the effort that is being made on my behalf in this suit, as a Million Mile + traveler who offered my loyalty to United virtually exclusively for 16 years.
I am, however, not awaiting an outcome.
I punish United every day in the marketplace, by withholding my loyalty from them.
When I started flying them in 1992, I was a deep discount economy flyer. Now, in 2013, about 90% of my travel is paid first class. United would have 100% share of that if they had continued to earn my loyalty.
Instead, I fly the airline that is most convenient, with the best service and the best fare for my purposes. That usually means Delta or American. If United is the clear winner, I fly them. They lose all ties, since they don't deserve to win.
By the way, I'm not loyal to American, or Delta, or Virgin America, or Eva, or Asiana, or Singapore, or Lufthansa either. Earn my business, earn my money, every time I fly. No more goodwill.
The airlines have made a carefully considered decision that they can retain many of the benefits to them of customer loyalty, while reducing the costs of providing them, mostly as the result of reduced competition. Good for them.
I'm just one tiny little irrelevant data point. My choice is meaningless to the airlines, but meaningful to me.
I hope the litigants clean United's clock, though I have no idea what the outcome will be. Hopefully they will get enough media attention to give them a good hard kick in the tender zone.
I am, however, not awaiting an outcome.
I punish United every day in the marketplace, by withholding my loyalty from them.
When I started flying them in 1992, I was a deep discount economy flyer. Now, in 2013, about 90% of my travel is paid first class. United would have 100% share of that if they had continued to earn my loyalty.
Instead, I fly the airline that is most convenient, with the best service and the best fare for my purposes. That usually means Delta or American. If United is the clear winner, I fly them. They lose all ties, since they don't deserve to win.
By the way, I'm not loyal to American, or Delta, or Virgin America, or Eva, or Asiana, or Singapore, or Lufthansa either. Earn my business, earn my money, every time I fly. No more goodwill.
The airlines have made a carefully considered decision that they can retain many of the benefits to them of customer loyalty, while reducing the costs of providing them, mostly as the result of reduced competition. Good for them.
I'm just one tiny little irrelevant data point. My choice is meaningless to the airlines, but meaningful to me.
I hope the litigants clean United's clock, though I have no idea what the outcome will be. Hopefully they will get enough media attention to give them a good hard kick in the tender zone.
Sep 21, 2013, 2:36 pm
#1813
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: US
Programs: AA/UA/DL
Posts: 2,773
Just point out that someone keep saying that pmUA MMers should not get their LIFETIME benefits in this thread while someone feels he/she entitles compensations for some minor issues. The same person also claims that he/she entitles to take advantage of the UA 4 miles tickets while pmUA MMs should not get their HARD EARNED PROMISED LIFETIME BENEFITS. It's very interesting to see the double standard.
Last edited by pigx5; Sep 21, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Sep 21, 2013, 2:40 pm
#1814
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,147
^^^ I want to be like Brian
Sep 21, 2013, 4:08 pm
#1815
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69
I have lots of paid MR on UA
same plane/day turn around to /return from SYD, HKG, SIN, BDL, BOS, WAS, NYC etc
lots of money to gain the million miler status.
Now, after the merger, it becomes useless.. cannot even have a change for upgrade.
same plane/day turn around to /return from SYD, HKG, SIN, BDL, BOS, WAS, NYC etc
lots of money to gain the million miler status.
Now, after the merger, it becomes useless.. cannot even have a change for upgrade.