Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 7, 2013, 7:25 am
#1726
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
Sure -- but at the same time there is no way a company can or will promise that everything they gave you at some point in time will be exactly the same and unchanged the rest of your life. That's what it seems people here were somehow expecting. Have you ever looked into the warranty of a prduct that boasts, "Lifetime warranty!"? If you do look into it you'll find that it lasts, "For the life of the product."
duct that boasts, "Lifetime warranty!"? If you do look into it you'll find that it lasts, "For the life of the product."
But also, comparing a product to a service is a very different thing. But when RPUs continue to exist (just under a different name), and when your promised status best maps to a level higher than what is granted to you (especially when a different constituent group's promised level maps to a lower one than what was granted to them), that's also a bit different.
Sep 7, 2013, 7:28 am
#1727
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
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Posts: 35,432
A fair point - if UA goes out of business, it's tough to keep your status But also, comparing a product to a service is a very different thing.
But when RPUs continue to exist (just under a different name), and when your promised status best maps to a level higher than what is granted to you (especially when a different constituent group's promised level maps to a lower one), that's also a bit different.
But also, comparing a product to a service is a very different thing. But when RPUs continue to exist (just under a different name), and when your promised status best maps to a level higher than what is granted to you (especially when a different constituent group's promised level maps to a lower one), that's also a bit different.
mplaint. UA specifically went out of its way to state on the web site FAQ section about the merger that those were not going away. Regarding the desire for PMUA MM members to be granted PP status, that dog don't hunt.
Sep 7, 2013, 7:38 am
#1728
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Just a c
uple of pints to clarify yur comments...
UA didn't give me anything. UA ffered me certain specific "lifetime benefits" in return for my flying one million BIS miles on UA metal.
It was a transactin.
That's a cute j
ke. I relayed another recently in this thread about the buffet manager cutting me off after one plate. "But your sign says 'All You Can Eat.'"
"Yes, and one plate is all you can eat."
Even if the Midas Muffler warranty doesn't include labor and pipes, there is a lifetime warranty on the muffler for as long as you own the car.
uple of pints to clarify yur comments...ffered me certain specific "lifetime benefits" in return for my flying one million BIS miles on UA metal.It was a transacti
n.
Have you ever looked into the warranty of a prduct that boasts, "Lifetime warranty!"? If you do look into it you'll find that it lasts, "For the life of the product."
duct that boasts, "Lifetime warranty!"? If you do look into it you'll find that it lasts, "For the life of the product."
ke. I relayed another recently in this thread about the buffet manager cutting me off after one plate. "But your sign says 'All You Can Eat.'""Yes, and one plate is all you can eat."
Even if the Midas Muffler warranty doesn't include labor and pipes, there is a lifetime warranty on the muffler for as long as you own the car.
Sep 7, 2013, 8:20 am
#1729
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
For all the folks who claim that they were promised the benefits of PE at the time of the grant as opposed to being promised PE status and whatever that meant in a given year do read the quote from Wine CountryUA's posting carefully:
This is pretty clear - you get PE. And if you want to learn about what PE is go follow a link for that. The promise was to make you part of that PE club - it didn't enumerate what you got in any given year for being in the club. Unlike David I don't think UA should get to arbitrarily change "contract" terms that caused people to alter their spend patterns. That's why I think they lose on dropping the RPUs. But as to the PE benefits the only argument you really can have is what PE is mapped to in the new program. I can understand why some folks want it to map to Plat but all the tiers have always been *defined* by their mileage qualifying tier. PE was defined for recent history as the 50K tier and that is Gold. You don't define the elite tiers by their benefits - you define them by how you earn them. UA devalued all the tiers. If it was still called PE it wouldn't make any difference. MMers would still be getting less than they used to because PE would have been devalued. The name really isn't the issue. MMers are still getting treated exactly as are folks who flew 50K in a year - that hasn't changed at all. It is just that 50K flyers aren't being treated as well as they used to.
Rewarding One Million Miles and Beyond
If you have flown one million, two million or three million miles, or more, on United, we congratulate you on these incredible milestones. To show how much we appreciate your remarkable loyalty, there are different levels of rewards. We are delighted to offer the following to our very best customers:
1 Million Mile Rewards
When you have flown one million lifetime base flight miles on United and United Express, you are rewarded with some exclusive benefits including:
Premier Executive® status for life. Learn about the benefits (hyperlink)
Two (2) Regional Upgrades at the end of every year
Three (3) Systemwide Upgrades to use for a one-class, one-way upgrade on United or United Express flights to any destination we fly worldwide, subject to terms and conditions.
If you have flown one million, two million or three million miles, or more, on United, we congratulate you on these incredible milestones. To show how much we appreciate your remarkable loyalty, there are different levels of rewards. We are delighted to offer the following to our very best customers:
1 Million Mile Rewards
When you have flown one million lifetime base flight miles on United and United Express, you are rewarded with some exclusive benefits including:
Premier Executive® status for life. Learn about the benefits (hyperlink)
Two (2) Regional Upgrades at the end of every year
Three (3) Systemwide Upgrades to use for a one-class, one-way upgrade on United or United Express flights to any destination we fly worldwide, subject to terms and conditions.
Sep 7, 2013, 8:30 am
#1730
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
...The promise was to make you part of that PE club - it didn't enumerate what you got in any given year for being in the club. ... I think they lose on dropping the RPUs. But as to the PE benefits the only argument you really can have is what PE is mapped to in the new program....
sting that. I think that sums things up quite nicely. The fact that the annual RPU benefit was stipulated separately (and that it was stipulated as part of the merger FAQ) and that said benefit was dropped would certainly seem to be grounds for a complaint.
Sep 7, 2013, 8:34 am
#1731
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
I can only reiterate that IMHO you accept the premise that PMUA Premier Executive "maps" or "tracks" to "Premier Gold" in the new program because... UA claims it does.
Additionally, as others have previously noted, there appears to be nothing published in the "Million Miles and Beyond" T&Cs about "50k." The emphasis is on the specific benefits attached to Premier Executive, a category that UA eliminated as it devalued the MP program a couple of years back.
Methinks we're looking at this from different angles.
Last edited by Fredd; Sep 7, 2013 at 8:40 am Reason: additional response
Sep 7, 2013, 8:51 am
#1732
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
To respond belatedly to the subsequent post... No, the promise was to make me "part" of the Million Miles and Beyond Program, membership in which included a number of specific benefits including but not limited to benefits of the Premier Executive level than in existence.
Methinks we're looking at this from different angles.
Methinks we're looking at this from different angles.
f PE" rather than PE status itself, I think that's quite a long stretch.
Sep 7, 2013, 9:02 am
#1733
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Sure and the one-time gift of SWUs and the annual benefit of RPUs were specifically enumerated. Were there any others other than PE status? If you are trying to argue that you were to receive the, "benefits f PE" rather than PE status itself, I think that's quite a long stretch.
f PE" rather than PE status itself, I think that's quite a long stretch.I am not a lawyer so will leave it to the lawyers to argue the legal points back and forth. Being a layman, I'm more interested in the moral / ethical aspects of this situation.
Another poster, currently on hiatus, embraced my reductio ad absurdum construct in which UA converts Premier Gold to "Premier Lead" and promises the benefits of general membership plus a personalized luggage tag.
Would y
u als
consider UA to be meeting its commitment to PMUA Million Mile Flyers if it announced those as the new "lifetime benefit" for MMs?
Last edited by Fredd; Sep 7, 2013 at 9:03 am Reason: seeking the mot juste
Sep 7, 2013, 9:19 am
#1734
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
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Sep 7, 2013, 9:21 am
#1735
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
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You're a lawyer, I take it. I respect your legal opinion and have long made it a practice not to argue the law with lawyers. N.B. I would only tactfully point out that others who describe themselves as lawyers have posted here and elsewhere legal opinions that differ from yours.
Sep 7, 2013, 9:36 am
#1736
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
You're a lawyer, I take it. I respect your legal opinion and have long made it a practice not to argue the law with lawyers. N.B. I would only tactfully point out that others who describe themselves as lawyers have posted here and elsewhere legal opinions that differ from yours.
t a lawyer, but I've been involved in enough legal wrangling in my time to know what passes the sniff test, what arguments are losing ones, and what to look for and expect when going to court. As this is a loyalty program, said 'lead' level would be a pretty stupid move. But that sort of change is a far cry from the changes that were made in this case.One other question I have, is whether UA has the right to simply terminate the MM program. I think we all agree that it has the right to do that for the MP program.
Sep 7, 2013, 9:51 am
#1737
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Sep 7, 2013, 9:54 am
#1738
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
Why can't UA reinstate Premier Executive and the MMer benefits for those who had previously qualified. Can't UA make it a "closed" level with no one else capable of qualifying.
Sep 7, 2013, 10:18 am
#1739
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
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urse it can.
Sep 7, 2013, 10:43 am
#1740
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Of course they could. But if they outright eliminated it for everyone I can only imagine the outcry. It would put this thread and lawsuit to shame. What they could do is eliminate it going forward and all those that have it would keep it. And precedent is already set for them letting those that have it keep it, look at the inifinite elite program. They eliminated that yet if you already had it you kept it and even kept getting better and better benefits and perks along the way.