Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 5, 2013, 8:19 pm
#1636
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,169
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Sep 5, 2013 at 9:32 pm Reason: Conforming edit.
Sep 5, 2013, 8:28 pm
#1637
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 1,653
False. I offered the analogy of food as a comparable benefit that was not contained in the contract agreed to with United.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 5, 2013 at 8:38 pm Reason: merge
Sep 5, 2013, 8:53 pm
#1638
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
You certainly missed my honest answer. Since UA promised me, among other benefits, "lifetime Premier Executive status, inclusive of all benefits," as long as Premier Executive status remained a part of the MP program I would expect to receive "all benefits," including new benefits, according to that wording.
By the way - I think the entire case either way hinges on this interpretation. I find all the "what did I pay for" stuff and "UA can change the terms" stuff mostly irrelevant. The question really is what did they promise. And the back and forth here between Fredd and me (and as I said above I can understand the position opposite mine being what the court picks) is really where the issue lies.
Sep 5, 2013, 9:27 pm
#1639
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: All opinions/interpretations expressed here are my own and are not officially sanctioned by UA
Posts: 352
No, I can't accept your premise. What UA promised me was "lifetime Premier Executive status, inclusive of all benefits."
They have eliminated Premier Executive status. They have devalued the program, added a tier, shuffled benefits around, and in so doing have apparently persuaded you and some others that "Premier Gold" is the same as "Premier Executive," or as some describe it using the word that some marketing genius invented, it tracks to Premier Gold. IMO it isn't and it doesn't, despite the Humpty-Dumpty-style assertions.
You certainly missed my honest answer. Since UA promised me, among other benefits, "lifetime Premier Executive status, inclusive of all benefits," as long as Premier Executive status remained a part of the MP program I would expect to receive "all benefits," including new benefits, according to that wording.
As the Bard wrote, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet - unless it's been replaced with skunk cabbage, which is, metaphorically speaking, what IMHO the new UA has done.
They have eliminated Premier Executive status. They have devalued the program, added a tier, shuffled benefits around, and in so doing have apparently persuaded you and some others that "Premier Gold" is the same as "Premier Executive," or as some describe it using the word that some marketing genius invented, it tracks to Premier Gold. IMO it isn't and it doesn't, despite the Humpty-Dumpty-style assertions.
You certainly missed my honest answer. Since UA promised me, among other benefits, "lifetime Premier Executive status, inclusive of all benefits," as long as Premier Executive status remained a part of the MP program I would expect to receive "all benefits," including new benefits, according to that wording.
As the Bard wrote, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet - unless it's been replaced with skunk cabbage, which is, metaphorically speaking, what IMHO the new UA has done.
Sep 5, 2013, 9:44 pm
#1640
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
But if that is true then you would also have to accept that if they otherwise altered the PE benefits that is also what you would get. I find it disingenuous to say that if they increased the benefits that you would expect the increase but if they changed or reduced the benefits you wouldn't expect to be impacted. I think you get one of two choices: either you believe that you were to receive PE (inclusive of all the benefits thereof whatever they are in any given year) or you expected to receive the benefits of PE at the time you made MM and thereafter would keep them no matter what changes were made to PE...
What I'm saying in an honest response to your question is this: If UA increased Premier Executive benefits after I qualified as a Million Mile Flyer, e.g. offered 150% bonus miles, I would have expected to receive the 150% bonus miles. Do you truly think otherwise? Would PMUA have bothered with the bookkeeping alone of differentiating between the benefits being received by those who earn PE in a given year and those who have been awarded lifetime status?
However, you have asked a hypothetical question because IIRC PMUA never reduced Premier Executive benefits.
What the new UA did instead was to devalue the MP program dramatically, renaming it by removing the space between the two words, and also to devalue the benefits of the "Million Miles and Beyond" program, changing its name to the "Million Miler Program." They included a lot of smoke and sound effects, metaphorically speaking, to mask the reality of their actions, e.g. "This spousal benefit will replace the one-time and annual upgrade gifts, and hopefully you’ll agree this is a better deal..." Magicians call it "patter." Others use less flattering descriptors.
The new UA eliminated Premier Executive. The new tier - the one they added - that most closely resembles Premier Executive in terms of the benefits attached is something they call "Premier Platinum." You asked for an "honest answer" to a hypothetical question, and when I provide an honest answer you accuse me of being "disingenuous." Sort of "having your cake and eating it too?" That's also IMHO a tad ironic in light of the disingenuous words and actions of UA.
Okay. Say for the sake of argument that the Premier Executive name had never been eliminated, but the benefits of that status were changed to what Premier Golds get now? You'd lose the part of your argument hinging on "lifetime Premier Executive status, inclusive of all benefits" to sue for, yet how would your situation be any different than it actually is now?
What if UA kept the "Premier Executive" name and changed the benefits to what General Members get now, with the addition of a personalized luggage tag?
Again, I'll let the lawyers argue the legality of such an action.
Sep 5, 2013, 9:54 pm
#1641
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: All opinions/interpretations expressed here are my own and are not officially sanctioned by UA
Posts: 352
Ah, another hypothetical question. That didn't happen, did it? Besides, in the material published by UA, it delineated very specifically the Premier Executive benefits. UA used the plural - benefits - to make clear it was promising specific "lifetime benefits."
What if UA kept the "Premier Executive" name and changed the benefits to what General Members get now, with the addition of a personalized luggage tag?
Again, I'll let the lawyers argue the legality of such an action.
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Sep 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm Reason: See above.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:00 pm
#1642
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
In the case of lifetime Premier Executive status, though, UA just threw that out the window and came up with new titles and benefits. I didn't agree to have my lifetime PE status switch to lifetime Gold with lesser benefits. I'd be quite happy to retain the lifetime Premier Executive benefits I was promised and still have that title for my tier. I hope when the litigation is resolved that's exactly what happens and my benefits are restored.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:07 pm
#1643
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
Written guarantees like this from your Employer we should all totally ignore - as according to you, they are null and void and totally unenforceable by those to whom they were made?
Interesting thought process. I'd like to see how many months you would succeed working in your own company, in any retail environment where there were competitors.
The fact you work for UA of course means you support the party line on this weasel act against Elites.
Go check the last few UA financial filings and the penny might drop, that screwing Elites is BAD for business.
Some of us like me were paid up 1Ks for 12 years straight, and unlike you were not riding up front on free or near free staff tickets etc.
We paid for your wages and we paid for those free First class staff tickets. And now WE can all take our medicine for that loyalty? Some logic.
Last edited by ozstamps; Sep 5, 2013 at 10:27 pm
Sep 5, 2013, 10:12 pm
#1644
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
All that "inclusive of all benefits" means is that you wouldn't be treated any differently as a MMPE than someone who flew the miles. E.g., in the current scheme there has been debate about whether lifetime 1Ks get the GPUs or just the priority and bonuses of a 1K. That phrase would say - they get everything a 1K by miles gets. It meant you wouldn't have been some PE-lite as a MMer. I'm not making any of this complicated at all. UA said fly a million and we'll always treat you as a full fledged PE. Their position is that they are doing exactly that since flying that 50K that got you PE now gets you PG. Is current PG degraded versus PE - you bet. But that is a different argument than the MM one. UA is giving you lifetime PG (nee PE) status inclusive of all benefits just as they said they would. Fair? Perhaps not. Do I like what they have done? No. But is it different than what they promised given the absolutely simplest reading of their promise - I don't see that it is.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:16 pm
#1645
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Wouldn't it be classic if UA were to lose this suit (which I doubt will happen), and they in turn change the fare requirements for RPUs and GPUs to Y/B/M fares!! The irony would be delicious.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:29 pm
#1646
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
In the case of lifetime Premier Executive status, though, UA just threw that out the window and came up with new titles and benefits. I didn't agree to have my lifetime PE status switch to lifetime Gold with lesser benefits. I'd be quite happy to retain the lifetime Premier Executive benefits I was promised and still have that title for my tier. I hope when the litigation is resolved that's exactly what happens and my benefits are restored.
So if I read your "argument" right, ANY change UA wishes to make to ANY promise they have made to Elites is theirs to do, without offering any reason, without any downside to UA?
Written guarantees like this we should all totally ignore - as according to you, they are null and void and totally unenforceable by those to whom they were made?
Written guarantees like this we should all totally ignore - as according to you, they are null and void and totally unenforceable by those to whom they were made?
If so, I ain't buying it. I gather neither ozstamps nor tom911 buy it either.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:34 pm
#1647
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,961
I don't think I'm going all reductio ad absurdo by asking, as I did above, if UA can evoke the words "lifetime benefits" but with impunity announce that "Premier Gold" has been renamed "Premier Lead" for anybody who flies 50K annually, and that the lucky recipient not only gets all the benefits accruing to a General Member, but in addition a personalized luggage tag.
If so, I ain't buying it.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:38 pm
#1648
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
For many years now the ONLY way to even hope to use a 1K Systemwide cert was to buy 'W' and above fares.
From SYD to USA that has generally meant a $2000-$3000 minimum ticket, versus the $900 K or S or T class cheapies etc. Just to buy a ticket in this "lottery".
We bought B class to IAD once at $4000 each and were not upgraded as UA aggressively sold the 10 biz seats at check in.
So we were in coach on $4000 tickets and the $900 once a decade flyers were in coach.
Now if UA REFUNDED the $3000 between B and K in such cases I'd have not felt so bad.
After a few things like that we no longer pay a cent to UA for tickets.
Call it 'irony' if you wish. I call it financial suicide to long term Elites. The recent UA profit filings support my view.
.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:41 pm
#1649
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
OK. No one's asking you to buy it.
You are repeatedly arguing, aren't you, that UA (or presumably any other individual or corporate entity) has the right to amend or eliminate benefits that it has previously promised as "lifetime benefits?"
Metaphorically speaking, I ain't buying it.
Sep 5, 2013, 10:46 pm
#1650
Suspended
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,961
If you paid $4000 for B just on the chance of an upgrade, when you could have paid $900, that just seems like a bad decision.
If you paid $4000 because you booked late at a popular time and that's all you could get, well, you got what you paid for.
SYD-SFO round trip in W is 1670 USD. The cheapest fares available right now for any time I looked is 1489 USD. Not a big difference.
If you paid $4000 because you booked late at a popular time and that's all you could get, well, you got what you paid for.
SYD-SFO round trip in W is 1670 USD. The cheapest fares available right now for any time I looked is 1489 USD. Not a big difference.