Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Sep 8, 2013, 9:04 am
#1756
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: UA 1K 3 Million/ex-many year GS, AA PLT/2 Mil, AS MVPG, HH Dia, Starwood Life Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,401
I viewed this as just another way to reward the pmCO crowd, who had an inflated mileage-earning system as compared to the strict UA-metal BIS at pmUA. Rather than give them what they might have expected based on the old rules (Silver at 1MM, Gold at 2MM, Platinum at 3MM, and now 1K at 4MM), Smisek chose to bump his core constituency up an extra level at each tier for no good business reason IMO.
By the way - lest anyone think I am playing UA apologist here I just flew my first UA legs since early May and they were dirt cheap transcons upgraded with certs. In that same interval I have purchased 1st class transcons sufficient to requalify my AS MVPG status for next year that AS had matched me to. So I have most certainly moved my most profitable business away from UA even though I carry lifetime 1K status. My comments in this thread are really just about trying to apply my logic to an inherently emotional debate about the legality of what UA has done.
Sep 8, 2013, 9:13 am
#1757
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
You should go back and see the thread when the adjustments were made. There were quite a few UA fliers complaining bitterly that a lot of their EQM's from the past did not get included. UA's records, supposedly, only went back so far, 2004 I think, and if you had a lot of extra EQM's from before then they did not get counted in the adjustment. But I guess they had to take the lesser (in their opinion) of 2 evils, strip miles from CO fliers or add miles to UA fliers. And heaven forbid they do anything like strip miles from CO fliers, in fact lets give them 1K for life if the had Infinite Elite and make the 1MM gold when they only got Silver in the CO program. And lets throw the UA fliers a bone and give them a minor adjustment to make them be quiet.
Sep 8, 2013, 9:29 am
#1758
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
COdbaUA could decide to give GS to any red headed, left handed woman born on a Tuesday in March and I don't think it would provide any more of a precedent. They simply chose to take what was clearly a tiny population of flyers and give them a plum. I don't think it is relevant to this larger discussion at all even though it irks folks. Heck if they are 1Ks for that tiny bit of loyalty why don't they make me a GS++ for my 3MM?
[Moderator edit to remove unduly personalized text [D]o you really not recognize that a person's choice of flights may be influenced by the terms of the loyalty program? If that were not the case, there'd be no reason for the loyalty programs to exist at all! Therefore those who knew the rules in advance were likely to come out far better than those who thought they were playing the game under a different set of rules.
Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; Sep 8, 2013 at 2:01 pm Reason: Per FT Rules that we debate the topic, not the member.
Sep 8, 2013, 9:39 am
#1759
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
At least two such programs may be found in UA's own literature.
One is the Million Miler Program (formerly titled Million Miles and Beyond), and another is the Global Services Program.
To the best of my knowledge, to maintain membership in either of these programs does not require an individual to fly any particular number of qualifying miles. In fact, one can maintain membership in either program (to the extent we understand the secretive terms of membership for GS) without flying any qualifying miles.
I'm not playing "gotcha" with you. IMHO it's significant that UA admits in its own literature that its Million Miler Program is something of a separate entity from, i.e. "over and above," MP. IMHO it's a point that lawyers can argue profitably.
But then I'm not a lawyer, nor do lawyers consult my schnoz.
Last edited by Fredd; Sep 8, 2013 at 9:51 am Reason: clarification / link added
Sep 8, 2013, 9:47 am
#1760
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
You should go back and see the thread when the adjustments were made. There were quite a few UA fliers complaining bitterly that a lot of their EQM's from the past did not get included. UA's records, supposedly, only went back so far, 2004 I think, and if you had a lot of extra EQM's from before then they did not get counted in the adjustment. But I guess they had to take the lesser (in their opinion) of 2 evils, strip miles from CO fliers or add miles to UA fliers. And heaven forbid they do anything like strip miles from CO fliers, in fact lets give them 1K for life if the had Infinite Elite and make the 1MM gold when they only got Silver in the CO program. And lets throw the UA fliers a bone and give them a minor adjustment to make them be quiet.
- Left the pmUA account balances as is.
- Adjusted the pmCO accounts to their best approximation of BIS.
- Grandfathered any pmCO's who dropped a level (a minority, given that you needed 2MM to get to Gold).
- Left 1MM at the Gold level, but included the 2 annual RPUs.
- Added the spousal benefit to the UA program, which would compensate for the RDM bonus devaluation (and relative level drop) at the Gold level.
- Swapped Platinum for lifetime club at 2MM as they did.
- Grandfathered the lifetime club membership for anyone who reached 2MM in the next three years (imagine the mileage runs!).
In this way, no one would have lost much and they would not have given away a lot of unnecessary level bumps. The overall cost would likely be little different, but there'd be far less of us feeling cheated as we do now.
Last edited by NiceLanding; Sep 8, 2013 at 9:52 am
Sep 8, 2013, 1:00 pm
#1761
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
I would prefer it if CO management just gave pre-merger UA fliers what we were promised.
Your proposal works fine for some, but not for all.
Your proposal works fine for some, but not for all.
Sep 8, 2013, 3:50 pm
#1762
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Remember, the average PM UA MM was 1K for 10 years straight (avg time it takes to get to MM), which means the avg MM was also UAs best customers!
Also, PM CO MM received lifetime benefits similar to the 25,000 mile tier (if I am wrong, please correct me); after the merger, this group were upgraded to benefits of Premier Gold. One didn't have to fly the actual mileage to be a CO MM.
Sep 8, 2013, 4:20 pm
#1763
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,511
Agreed there aren't many who are going to get it - but at the same time, GS is all about being a secret unpublished tier based on revenue. Offering it lifetime based on miles IMO is a major disconnect.
I bet you that any lifetime GS probably have a lot of non-flight miles wrapped up in that 4MM
I bet you that any lifetime GS probably have a lot of non-flight miles wrapped up in that 4MM
Sep 8, 2013, 10:26 pm
#1764
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
If they backtracked and grandfathered those 2, MANY who do not fly them now will do so again.
=============
Home > Mileage Plus > About Mileage Plus > Elite members > Million Miles and Beyond Rewards
Million Miles and Beyond Rewards
Rewarding a Million Miles and Beyond
If you have flown one million, two million or three million miles, or more, on United, we congratulate you on these incredible milestones. To show how much we appreciate your remarkable loyalty, there are different levels of rewards. We are delighted to offer the following to our very best customers:
One (1) Million Mile Rewards
When you have flown one million lifetime base flight miles on United and United Express, you are rewarded with some exclusive benefits including:
• Premier Executive® status for life
• Two (2) confirmed Regional Upgrades at the end of every year
• Three (3) Systemwide Upgrades to use for a one-class, one-way upgrade on United or United Express flights to any destination we fly worldwide, subject to terms and conditions.
http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,52380,00.html
Sep 8, 2013, 11:05 pm
#1765
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
And it's not just the material on the web site. I still have my 2010 welcome letter spelling out the perks:
It still surprises me that one poster here says those are worth about as much as a rock in a box and that UA can do anything they want to do with my lifetime benefits. It's just very difficult to buy into that policy after this letter promising exactly the opposite.
Dear tom911,
There is no doubt that you are one of our very best customers, and we sincerely thank you for your loyalty to United. We will continue to make every effort to exceed your highest expectations every time you fly with us.
With your new Million Mile status comes some well-earned perks. You'll be receiving with our compliments:
Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
Lifetime Premier Executive® status in our Mileage Plus program
There is no doubt that you are one of our very best customers, and we sincerely thank you for your loyalty to United. We will continue to make every effort to exceed your highest expectations every time you fly with us.
With your new Million Mile status comes some well-earned perks. You'll be receiving with our compliments:
Three (3) systemwide upgrades immediately
Two (2) confirmed regional upgrades at the end of every year
Lifetime Premier Executive® status in our Mileage Plus program
Sep 8, 2013, 11:12 pm
#1766
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
I've been following this thread since the outset since, in full disclosure, I became a MM as the result of the adjustment (although I'm likely to hit my true MM later this year), and I have yet to see a great argument for the distinction being drawn by the proposed definition of the class.
If the goalposts could be moved for people who hadn't reached MM, despite flying as many as 999,999 miles, why couldn't the benefits be changed for those who had flown as little as 1,000,000 miles?
Greg
Sep 8, 2013, 11:21 pm
#1767
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
I have to say that I don't understand why the plaintiff's suit works only for people who had already been MM's as of 12/31/11. If there was reliance, wasn't there just as much reliance by the guy who had flown 999,999 miles on 12/31/11 and became a MM on 1/1/12?
I've been following this thread since the outset since, in full disclosure, I became a MM as the result of the adjustment (although I'm likely to hit my true MM later this year), and I have yet to see a great argument for the distinction being drawn by the proposed definition of the class.
If the goalposts could be moved for people who hadn't reached MM, despite flying as many as 999,999 miles, why couldn't the benefits be changed for those who had flown as little as 1,000,000 miles?
Greg
I've been following this thread since the outset since, in full disclosure, I became a MM as the result of the adjustment (although I'm likely to hit my true MM later this year), and I have yet to see a great argument for the distinction being drawn by the proposed definition of the class.
If the goalposts could be moved for people who hadn't reached MM, despite flying as many as 999,999 miles, why couldn't the benefits be changed for those who had flown as little as 1,000,000 miles?
Greg
Sep 8, 2013, 11:41 pm
#1768
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
And to let you know, I have been in contact with the plaintiff and the plaintiffs lawyers. Though we cannot be directly added to the case if it goes class action they say they are going to see what can be done for us but no guarantees. This is more from the plaintiff than the lawyers, their main suggestion is to file our own lawsuit. I don't have anywhere near the means to do so. So we will see what happens.
I would hazard to guess that the proposed class was defined in that fashion to facilitate easier settlement by the parties. The class size of MM's as of 12/31/11 is known. UA can make an estimate as to the lifetime cost of providing certain benefits to that class, and a settlement can be negotiated.
If, by contrast, you were to say that everyone who relied upon UA's commitments to their detriment by the change was part of the class, that class would be everyone who paid for 1 mile of travel on UA and who ultimately becomes MM. UA can't make an estimate as to the ultimate size of that class, and as a result has no way to model out what their costs would be, and has greater incentive to litigate it out.
The lawyers have no incentive to fight the latter battle, because they want to get paid early, and the class representatives don't care about the rest of the affected population, because they're part of the defined class likely to get taken care of. The rest of the MP public is basically being told to go away and be quiet.
I admit that I could be thinking about this the wrong way, and I look forward to somebody explaining why I am. I used to be in support of this lawsuit, but unless somebody can explain to me why the legal rationales for compensating the 12/31/11 MM's would not be applicable to those who subsequently become MM's and who purchased tickets and flew on UA prior to the change, I'd have to say that this lawsuit sucks, and "Go United!"
Greg
Last edited by greg99; Sep 8, 2013 at 11:42 pm Reason: Edited to correct year references
Sep 9, 2013, 12:09 am
#1769
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Randy Petersen, in 2011, estimated the combined UA/CO program would have 91 million members.
There was also a post that the UA program had more members than the population of France:
Looking at the numbers from either direction, 66 million or 91 million members of a class action sounds like an impossible number of clients to manage and to pay for up-front costs of notification, database maintenance, and inclusion/exclusion in a class action. I agree with you that every Mileage Plus member, certainly those premerger who saw the UA statements about lifetime status, could be part of an extended class as they could all eventually reach 1MM in decades to come.
I don't know anything about the law firm involved, but just can't imagine their costs to include tens of millions of flyers in the class and notify every one of them at their expense. Just look at the postage for that alone---over $20 million on the low end-- to send out notice to anyone in the class with no guarantee they're going to walk away with cash when this is done.
It does sound like the smaller class, an unknown number of existing flyers with UA premerger million miler status, would just be easier to manage. In my case I went deliberately out of the way to reach 1MM premerger after a long discussion with an FTer who raised the flag with me about what might happen post-merger if I waited to qualify for 1MM. He scared me enough to get it out of the way in 2010 and I paid a premium to do that.
There was also a post that the UA program had more members than the population of France:
I don't know anything about the law firm involved, but just can't imagine their costs to include tens of millions of flyers in the class and notify every one of them at their expense. Just look at the postage for that alone---over $20 million on the low end-- to send out notice to anyone in the class with no guarantee they're going to walk away with cash when this is done.
It does sound like the smaller class, an unknown number of existing flyers with UA premerger million miler status, would just be easier to manage. In my case I went deliberately out of the way to reach 1MM premerger after a long discussion with an FTer who raised the flag with me about what might happen post-merger if I waited to qualify for 1MM. He scared me enough to get it out of the way in 2010 and I paid a premium to do that.
Last edited by tom911; Sep 9, 2013 at 12:17 am Reason: added a line
Sep 9, 2013, 12:28 am
#1770
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Legally, it has to do with whether you had vested benefits or not.
Those who had earned a MM were legally vested and those who did not are not.
Remember, once you are a MM, there is a separate set of specific promises made. Prior to making MM, UA retained the right to make whatever changes it wanted in the program.
It is conceptually no different than being in the military for 19-years and complaining you get no pension. Prior to 20-years, you get nothing. Once hitting 20, you do.
For me, the best settlement would be to carve out pre-merger UA Million Milers, give them two regional upgrades a year and give them all the benefits Premier Exec had at the time the benefits were withdrawn (Star Gold status, 100% RDM bonus, etc.). Of course, they would have to retroactively provide the regional upgrades (so give four a year until the gap is covered when none were issued) and bonus RDMs.
Frankly, it wouldn't cost UA that much to do this and it would save them from the bashing they take from anyone I can get to listen. Who knows? They might even get some good will out of it and defectors might come back.
Maybe.
Those who had earned a MM were legally vested and those who did not are not.
Remember, once you are a MM, there is a separate set of specific promises made. Prior to making MM, UA retained the right to make whatever changes it wanted in the program.
It is conceptually no different than being in the military for 19-years and complaining you get no pension. Prior to 20-years, you get nothing. Once hitting 20, you do.
For me, the best settlement would be to carve out pre-merger UA Million Milers, give them two regional upgrades a year and give them all the benefits Premier Exec had at the time the benefits were withdrawn (Star Gold status, 100% RDM bonus, etc.). Of course, they would have to retroactively provide the regional upgrades (so give four a year until the gap is covered when none were issued) and bonus RDMs.
Frankly, it wouldn't cost UA that much to do this and it would save them from the bashing they take from anyone I can get to listen. Who knows? They might even get some good will out of it and defectors might come back.
Maybe.