Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Feb 7, 2013, 7:53 pm
#1126
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,853
Feb 7, 2013, 8:11 pm
#1127
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
Feb 7, 2013, 11:35 pm
#1128
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 75
Had UA made a similar kind of arrangement for PMUA MM flyers, this all could have been avoided for a fraction of the cost of the lawsuit they're now fighting. Not to mention all the lost revenue from alienating one of their most fervently loyal groups of customers.
At this point, UA has nothing to lose by settling the case. Any status benefit offered to PMUA MM flyers to settle the case isn't going to cost UA anything because it will only be given to a few thousand people, the majority of whom have already sworn off ever flying on UA again.
Feb 8, 2013, 12:16 am
#1129
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
I guess the UA flyers in limbo, though, will be those that were on the track to 1MM and might be short for whatever reason. I know I went out of my way to hit 1MM before the merger because a veteran poster on this forum warned me that it was something I should consider. I'm glad I took his advice and flew the extra miles to hit it in 2010 ( did something over 100K that year and 50K the year before). Not everyone could do that, though, particularly if they were further away than I was or just didn't have the time or money for all the flying. I took a gamble that the lifetime benefits were worth the effort and then the carpet was pulled out from under me after the merger.
Feb 8, 2013, 1:21 am
#1130
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
I see a lot of backslapping lately on this thread - as in we practically won, but, besides attorney fees, what is the incentive for UA to settle? They've likely written off the people who don't fly them anymore. They've moved on. Let's say this goes all the way - potentially years of waiting this out - and if they lose, they load up CR-1's to MM's- and unlikely but possible even give out 100% mileage credit, etc - but what is the upside to settling earlier? No doubt, by now, a UA attorney has at least come across this thread and monitors this, and probably says - lets duke this out, they don't fly us, or they hate us, it isn't like everyone flocks back to the airline.
I think the PR from this is barely a ripple in the day to day news for United - things like 787 issues or the NE upcoming blizzard are far more monetary and more on the radar.
I think the PR from this is barely a ripple in the day to day news for United - things like 787 issues or the NE upcoming blizzard are far more monetary and more on the radar.
Feb 8, 2013, 6:27 am
#1131
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 1,653
Do you have any proof for this conjecture that over half of the thousands of MM do not fly United?
Feb 8, 2013, 11:47 am
#1132
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
I see a lot of backslapping lately on this thread - as in we practically won, but, besides attorney fees, what is the incentive for UA to settle? They've likely written off the people who don't fly them anymore. They've moved on. Let's say this goes all the way - potentially years of waiting this out - and if they lose, they load up CR-1's to MM's- and unlikely but possible even give out 100% mileage credit, etc - but what is the upside to settling earlier? No doubt, by now, a UA attorney has at least come across this thread and monitors this, and probably says - lets duke this out, they don't fly us, or they hate us, it isn't like everyone flocks back to the airline.
I think the PR from this is barely a ripple in the day to day news for United - things like 787 issues or the NE upcoming blizzard are far more monetary and more on the radar.
-
I don’t think it is “back slapping” as much as it is encouragement in the fact that at least a court of law agrees that there “might” be something unlawful about the new UA management’s breach of lifetime promises made to PMUA million-milers.
Initially, there were countless negative posters to these million-mile threads. Now we have only a handful of hecklers, but one prolific heckler.
Despite the early discouragement from posters, some of who were not million-milers, and a heckler who continues to post here who is also not a million-miler, we appear to be on the correct path to having our breached lifetime benefits restored.
We have a court hearing scheduled with a federal judge that denied UA’s motion to dismiss. If you prefer to call our encouragement “backslapping” then so be it.
It is true. The case is not settled. After all, we just got past having UA’s motion to dismiss denied by a federal judge.
You ask - What is the incentive for UA to settle? That is an easy question to answer. By settling, UA will get past the negative publicity it created. UA would probably get back a significant number of former loyal passengers who left for other air carriers. Getting back the breached benefits is the purpose of the class action. If the benefits return, so will many of the passengers.
Consider UA’s operational and financial performance recently reported for 2012. Those results were not good, by any means. The poor performance is partly due to the way million-milers were abused. The shabby treatment and the breach of the million-mile lifetime benefits caused a distrust of UA management.
In addition to the negative operational and financial problems reported, there was a mass exodus of loyal customers to other air carriers during the 2012 report period.
The negative publicity together with the loss of additional passengers would come to a halt. Obviously, customers have value to UA. Reversing what was intentionally done to lifetime benefits of million-milers could reclaim many lost customers.
UA management cannot afford to let this situation last for years. That is how bankruptcies begin.
It is obvious that UA management made a series of unwise decisions related to operational, financial and customer mistreatment.
The incentive for UA to bring this type behavior to an end strengthens the probability that operational and financial results will improve as this awful mistake of UA is put behind them.
Most of us know that some people who are high achievers have a difficult time admitting that they make mistakes. Smisek and Rainey are high achievers. The mistakes of Smisek and Rainey have come back to haunt them. It is time for a reality check for the two of them.
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Feb 8, 2013 at 10:26 pm Reason: spelling
Feb 8, 2013, 12:32 pm
#1133
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
?
Feb 8, 2013, 12:33 pm
#1134
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Feb 8, 2013, 12:46 pm
#1135
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: @LAS
Programs: Concorde Connoisseur, ua 1mm
Posts: 152
To the FT Members who were PMUA MM or close to it before the merger:
[...]However, those who have put their hard-earned money into this thinking they would get LIFETIME benefits and were close to MM, pre-merger, hold tight, whatever happens with this, may create a ripple effect for everyone else. The effort will be made to address everyone. It may work, it may not. We shall see.
UG
[...]However, those who have put their hard-earned money into this thinking they would get LIFETIME benefits and were close to MM, pre-merger, hold tight, whatever happens with this, may create a ripple effect for everyone else. The effort will be made to address everyone. It may work, it may not. We shall see.
UG
That reinforces my own thoughts on the matter ...
Feb 8, 2013, 1:31 pm
#1136
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
Feb 8, 2013, 1:34 pm
#1137
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Assume the million-mile suit, that is presently in court, is successfully concluded with restored benefits.
I think that the same attorney (or another attorney) would be willing to go after UA for misleading people who relied on the promises but did not make the goal because the rug was pulled out preventing completions.
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Feb 8, 2013 at 3:14 pm Reason: spelling
Feb 8, 2013, 1:40 pm
#1138
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Programs: AA EXP, UA former 1K (1.9MM and gone), Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat
Posts: 1,111
I see a lot of backslapping lately on this thread - as in we practically won, but, besides attorney fees, what is the incentive for UA to settle? They've likely written off the people who don't fly them anymore. They've moved on. Let's say this goes all the way - potentially years of waiting this out - and if they lose, they load up CR-1's to MM's- and unlikely but possible even give out 100% mileage credit, etc - but what is the upside to settling earlier? No doubt, by now, a UA attorney has at least come across this thread and monitors this, and probably says - lets duke this out, they don't fly us, or they hate us, it isn't like everyone flocks back to the airline.
I think the PR from this is barely a ripple in the day to day news for United - things like 787 issues or the NE upcoming blizzard are far more monetary and more on the radar.
I think the PR from this is barely a ripple in the day to day news for United - things like 787 issues or the NE upcoming blizzard are far more monetary and more on the radar.
-- The required settlement documents/coupons
-- A sincere-sounding letter of apology for their "mistake"
-- A brochure showing real improvements since I left
-- A 1K MM card (restoring my previous long-time status)
Also, for the sake of argument, let's say we're in the midst of the messy phase of the AA/US merger. Perhaps they're switching from Sabre to SHARES and they've just dropped the top tier annual benefit from 8 SWUs (PMAA) to 2 SWUs (PMUS).
Would I seriously consider returning? You bet! I might not immediately abandon AA, but I'd sure try out my new RPUs and GPUs on a couple of flights and see if things really have improved at UA.
Feb 8, 2013, 8:41 pm
#1139
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
^ Like many others I appreciate your opinion.
Here's some interesting reading. This Christopher Elliott piece in WaPo contains some interesting nuggets, e.g.
*****
*****
Here's some interesting reading. This Christopher Elliott piece in WaPo contains some interesting nuggets, e.g.
Croswell says that his benefits have evaporated since United’s merger with Continental. Gone are many of the upgrades and other perks, and his boarding pass doesn’t even note his “Million Miler” status anymore. “Imagine putting money in a savings account, and the day you go to redeem the promised return, they say, ‘Sorry, we changed the rules. Your money is worth nothing now,’ ” he says. “I feel betrayed.”
United Airlines did not respond directly to Croswell’s criticisms and would not provide a representative of its MileagePlus program for an interview. But Charles Hobart, a spokesman for the airline, said that United’s loyalty program is “very generous to customers who have been loyal to us in the past.”
United Airlines did not respond directly to Croswell’s criticisms and would not provide a representative of its MileagePlus program for an interview. But Charles Hobart, a spokesman for the airline, said that United’s loyalty program is “very generous to customers who have been loyal to us in the past.”
One reason United isn’t talking is that it’s the subject of a lawsuit brought by another Million Miler. George Lagen, a Chicago-based frequent flier, sued United in May after the airline reduced his elite status. United has tried to get the case thrown out, claiming that it has the right to modify its frequent-flier program, but in late January, a federal judge refused to dismiss the case.
Lagen’s case is one of several lawsuits against United resulting from changes that occurred after it merged with Continental Airlines and began trimming the benefits of its combined frequent-flier program. But the Million Miler dustup is the most closely watched, not just among frequent travelers but also within the airline industry. Although incremental devaluations of frequent-flier programs aren’t unusual, this marks the first time that a major airline has made such dramatic downgrades for its most established customers. If United prevails in court, it will almost certainly embolden other airlines to take similar steps.
Lagen’s case is one of several lawsuits against United resulting from changes that occurred after it merged with Continental Airlines and began trimming the benefits of its combined frequent-flier program. But the Million Miler dustup is the most closely watched, not just among frequent travelers but also within the airline industry. Although incremental devaluations of frequent-flier programs aren’t unusual, this marks the first time that a major airline has made such dramatic downgrades for its most established customers. If United prevails in court, it will almost certainly embolden other airlines to take similar steps.
It doesn’t seem to matter if an airline keeps its elite levels easy to maintain for Million Milers or, for that matter, the mileage opportunists who manage to collect rewards without darkening the door of an aircraft; or if the airline starts to cut its programs in order to make its top-tier customers happy. Too many loyal travelers say that they feel burned.
Croswell, who as a United Airlines 1K member in 1996 was once asked to give up the first-class seat from London to Washington that he’d been upgraded to for a Million Miler, and gladly did it because he says he knew that one day “my time would come” to be recognized, is done playing the loyalty game.
“I’m still flying,” he says. “But not on United.”
Croswell, who as a United Airlines 1K member in 1996 was once asked to give up the first-class seat from London to Washington that he’d been upgraded to for a Million Miler, and gladly did it because he says he knew that one day “my time would come” to be recognized, is done playing the loyalty game.
“I’m still flying,” he says. “But not on United.”
Last edited by Fredd; Feb 8, 2013 at 8:48 pm
Feb 8, 2013, 10:35 pm
#1140
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 75
Perhaps the sarcasm of the previous post was a bit too subtle - my point is that the cost for UA to settle this whole MM debacle is infinitesimally small. The class of people included in this lawsuit are a subset of MM flyers who have been largely alienated by UA. By offering to settle at this point, UA will give these alienated customers a reason to come back. Not all will, but for every one that does it's money in the bank for UA.