Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Feb 9, 2013, 7:19 pm
#1171
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
On the other hand, if you consider that the average fares include First to Business and Economy. JFK-LHR in first is far more money than the $1,750. you quoted. An average is not an exact number.
Until today, when a handful of posters began accusing UA million-milers of being whiners and telling them they should "move on" did the thread take a different direction.
The thread concerns the class action lawsuit.
It is now back on track (I hope).
-
Feb 9, 2013, 7:24 pm
#1172
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: ABE
Programs: DL DM, IHG Spire, Mariott Platinum (UA SI) Avis First, National Executive
Posts: 764
Because it concerns pmUA matters.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
Feb 9, 2013, 7:35 pm
#1173
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
Because it concerns pmUA matters.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
INC. and UNITED AIRLINES."
The suit results from post-merger changes UA made to its Million Mile program.
You're joking, aren't you?
Feb 9, 2013, 7:35 pm
#1174
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Because it concerns pmUA matters.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
-
You apparently have not read the entire thread, nor the title of the thread which is "Million Miler Files Suit Against United."
Contained in this thread are actual links to the class action lawsuit filed with the court.
In addition, there are countless discussions concerning the merits of the case. There are screen shots of breached lifetime promises. There are learned opinions of actual practicing attorneys who have made very logical comments concerning the merits of the case.
As I said, until today, when a handful of people decided to call the UA million-milers names, did the thread take a different direction.
With all due respect, I suggest you go back and read the beginning and later parts of this thread before you make additional erroneous statements.
-
Feb 9, 2013, 7:36 pm
#1175
Moderator: Mileage Run, United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The City/Honolulu
Programs: UA 3MM; Hyatt Glob*****; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,473
In elite-heavy PMUA hubs, upgrade availability was route dependent. Forget ever getting an upgrade, even with a regional applied on a route like SFO-IAD, except on rare occasion. Welcome to the PMUA larger route system with a vastly larger group of elites who fly way more than a paltry 75K a year. I average twice that every year.
I am writing this on a PMUA wifi enabled 319 ORD-SFO in Y. Neither my outbound or return cleared the CPU Waitlist and as a PMUA MM who will hit 2MM this year, I'm not whining. It is what it is. I gave out drink chits to the guy in my row who is stuck in the middle seat, because that's how I roll.
And that is exactly why I find it strange that all those without a horse in the race (the PMCO folks) are fixated on this thread, providing opinions on a subject they have little knowledge.
Feb 9, 2013, 7:49 pm
#1177
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ORD
Programs: 1K, MM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 427
Because it concerns pmUA matters.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
And a good percentage of the post-merger crowd here are not pmUA customers or care about pmUA matters.
That simple.
Think about the half-life of a thread devoted on pmCO matters in this forum. Same should be for the pmUA matters, if the moderators are fair.
That simple.
Feb 9, 2013, 7:54 pm
#1178
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Wow dgcpaphd - such emotion on each post. Anyway, you totally misinterpreted my post.
When I said UA has moved on - they've moved on by changing mileage plus. So far, they've shown no indication that have any inclination to change it back to the pre-merger days. You want so badly the good old days of the old United - but that United no longer exists no matter how much you hope for it.
I also never said for anyone else to move on.
What I said was, there seem to be a large number of posters that have indeed, moved on to another airline. And I added, the UA forum is very odd now - so many former UA posters who claim they abandoned UA but still post venom as if they are still flying the airline - that is just odd to me.
This case might be settled on Monday - or it could get dismissed at some point - or it could go to full trial, what does that take? Years? And if goes to trial, plaintiff can still lose - or might prevail with some CR-1's.
I also disagree with this notion of the million miler program being a main driver for flying UA pre-merger. Before I moved to Hawaii and was traveling the world - none of my co-workers talked about the million miler program. They weren't flying UA for the service either. There was obsession about status - usually 1K. I remember the pre-web days, when you called in and see if your flight posted - and you'd here the voice prompt tell you how many YTD miles. You were excited about the 25,000 bonus miles at 1K. The perks of status were significant. It was status driven - not million miler status driven. In fact, when I passed 1 million miles I was kind of like a shrug of the shoulders, I was 1K so the Premier Executive perk didn't mean a whole lot to me.
When I said UA has moved on - they've moved on by changing mileage plus. So far, they've shown no indication that have any inclination to change it back to the pre-merger days. You want so badly the good old days of the old United - but that United no longer exists no matter how much you hope for it.
I also never said for anyone else to move on.
What I said was, there seem to be a large number of posters that have indeed, moved on to another airline. And I added, the UA forum is very odd now - so many former UA posters who claim they abandoned UA but still post venom as if they are still flying the airline - that is just odd to me.
This case might be settled on Monday - or it could get dismissed at some point - or it could go to full trial, what does that take? Years? And if goes to trial, plaintiff can still lose - or might prevail with some CR-1's.
I also disagree with this notion of the million miler program being a main driver for flying UA pre-merger. Before I moved to Hawaii and was traveling the world - none of my co-workers talked about the million miler program. They weren't flying UA for the service either. There was obsession about status - usually 1K. I remember the pre-web days, when you called in and see if your flight posted - and you'd here the voice prompt tell you how many YTD miles. You were excited about the 25,000 bonus miles at 1K. The perks of status were significant. It was status driven - not million miler status driven. In fact, when I passed 1 million miles I was kind of like a shrug of the shoulders, I was 1K so the Premier Executive perk didn't mean a whole lot to me.
Feb 9, 2013, 8:00 pm
#1179
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: ABE
Programs: DL DM, IHG Spire, Mariott Platinum (UA SI) Avis First, National Executive
Posts: 764
Well that makes sense with fewer elites on what many refer to as a regional airline. Fewer elites, less competition for those upgrades.
In elite-heavy PMUA hubs, upgrade availability was route dependent. Forget ever getting an upgrade, even with a regional applied on a route like SFO-IAD, except on rare occasion. Welcome to the PMUA larger route system with a vastly larger group of elites who fly way more than a paltry 75K a year. I average twice that every year.
I am writing this on a PMUA wifi enabled 319 ORD-SFO in Y. Neither my outbound or return cleared the CPU Waitlist and as a PMUA MM who will hit 2MM this year, I'm not whining. It is what it is. I gave out drink chits to the guy in my row who is stuck in the middle seat, because that's how I roll.
And that is exactly why I find it strange that all those without a horse in the race (the PMCO folks) are fixated on this thread, providing opinions on a subject they have little knowledge.
In elite-heavy PMUA hubs, upgrade availability was route dependent. Forget ever getting an upgrade, even with a regional applied on a route like SFO-IAD, except on rare occasion. Welcome to the PMUA larger route system with a vastly larger group of elites who fly way more than a paltry 75K a year. I average twice that every year.
I am writing this on a PMUA wifi enabled 319 ORD-SFO in Y. Neither my outbound or return cleared the CPU Waitlist and as a PMUA MM who will hit 2MM this year, I'm not whining. It is what it is. I gave out drink chits to the guy in my row who is stuck in the middle seat, because that's how I roll.
And that is exactly why I find it strange that all those without a horse in the race (the PMCO folks) are fixated on this thread, providing opinions on a subject they have little knowledge.
Back to the point:
This subject is a beef that pmUA folks have with the merged airline. I hope everyone agrees.
The merged airline is comprised from 2 different constituencies: pmCO and pmUA that have different cultures. And should be equally respected. I hope everyone agrees.
So, please understand that for the ones of us who came from the pmCO world this matter means nothing. Zip. Zero. As most of the matters of pmUA people whining about the way things are vs their "wonderful" pm experience.
There is a pmUA forum for commiseration. All I am asking is for the moderators of this forum to be fair and direct all the whining posts about "how things were back in the day" and about "COdbaUA" (some of us would love COdbaCO still, btw) and other such posts to the pmUA forum. The moderators have to understand that the new United includes pmCO folks who should be treated equally in this forum.
Feb 9, 2013, 8:09 pm
#1180
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Programs: UA (1K, 2MM), AA, Avis, National
Posts: 867
I do not see how the discussion of who lost more from the merger, pmCO or pmUA frequent flyers, is relevant to the thread topic. I think everybody agrees that UA can change many of the terms of the MP program, even though some people may not like some of the changes and whine about them or move to another airline. The question is if UA can promise lifetime benefits and then take them away.
Feb 9, 2013, 8:13 pm
#1181
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: ABE
Programs: DL DM, IHG Spire, Mariott Platinum (UA SI) Avis First, National Executive
Posts: 764
I do not see how the discussion of who lost more from the merger, pmCO or pmUA frequent flyers, is relevant to the thread topic. I think everybody agrees that UA can change many of the terms of the MP program, even though some people may not like some of the changes and whine about them or move to another airline. The question is if UA can promise lifetime benefits and then take them away.
And let me make this a tad more clear:
The question is if pmUA can promise lifetime benefits and then take them away
so this whole mess belongs to the pmUA forum (because the post-merger UA did not promise anything)
Feb 9, 2013, 8:15 pm
#1182
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Cannot agree more, and this has been my point:
- hey folks there are 2 parties in this merger
- methinks that us pmCO elites lost more in this situation that the pmUA elites
- 99% of the whining here has been from pmUA elites about some lost privileges
- it is getting old
- hey folks there are 2 parties in this merger
- methinks that us pmCO elites lost more in this situation that the pmUA elites
- 99% of the whining here has been from pmUA elites about some lost privileges
- it is getting old
United Million Mile Flyers (as they were called, because one had to fly an actual Million Miles on UA aircraft) were told if they stick it out with UA, their benefits would be worth the effort.
Monsiuer IflyfromABE I have seen you around FT for awhile but this is one of your first postings on this particular thread. I am going to assume because of your posts, you have not read all 55 pages of this particular thread. Why do I say this?
POINT ONE
"methinks that us pmCO elites lost more in this situation that the pmUA elites"
I would ask for you to explain, but if you are going to state CO airplanes had more legroom or more width in the seats whereas UA planes are smaller, older. I have no interest for engagement. I could respond by saying "E+"
POINT TWO
"99% of the whining here has been from pmUA elites about some lost privileges"
Most of us have spent a great deal of time, money and effort, flying UA...ah, you know what, read the 55 pages you will understand. It's not whining, it's called being p'd off. Whining would be a little bit of what you are doing...
POINT THREE
"it is getting old"
Oh my Dear Sir, but it only has just begun... And with all things in this world, with all it's "noise" coming from every corner of the world, if one doesn't like something, one doesn't have to follow or read. For others, this is a very important suit that is going to have ripple effects throughout the airline loyalty programs.
Feb 9, 2013, 8:22 pm
#1183
Suspended
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Maryland
Programs: UA MM Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 23,764
Feb 9, 2013, 8:24 pm
#1184
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
If you read the Washington Post article, other airlines are watching this very closely because what happens here is going to definitely effect possibly millions of other flyers. So as small-minded as one may think this thread is actually to think otherwise is small-minded, no?
This "whole mess" happened AFTER the merger, it has nothing to do with what United promised before. It's what United DID AFTER the merger. AFTER THE MERGER = AFTER THE MERGER = the right forum.
Feb 9, 2013, 8:30 pm
#1185
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
I ask because maybe I am not seeing something different perhaps you are seeing from your vantage point. Educate us if you please, the intent is not to alienate customers or an "us vs. them" mentality. This is really a "a group of customers vs. company" issue.
Thanks!
UG
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Feb 9, 2013 at 8:58 pm