United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 25, 2012, 6:56 am
#1141
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Indeed. I'm not a fan of his but he nailed this time.
And there are other places to go. As an EXP I enjoyed the Bollenger Rose in the BA first lounge at LHR.
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Brilliant! ^^^
And there are other places to go. As an EXP I enjoyed the Bollenger Rose in the BA first lounge at LHR.
May 25, 2012, 7:15 am
#1142
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pikes Peak COS
Programs: 3 Month Delta Plat, UA PP 2.4mm, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HH Lifetime Diamond, National EE
Posts: 426
Does United care that they are losing loyal flyers?
Look at myt last email to United:
I am absolutely amazed that you would not grant this 500,00+ lifetime flyer the 121 miles needed to reach silver. I have a 4900+ mile flight booked for Jun 7 and will reach silver then, however it would be nice to have silver status prior to boarding that flight. Do you care that you treat customers so badly that they will go out of their way to never fly United? My last three experiences flying United have been horrible, due to the confusion caused by the merger. AND NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE. I HAD TO WRITE SMISEK via return receipt certified mail to get a refund owed me after making numerous calls and visits in person to United customer service. AND NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE ABOUT THE CUSTOMERS.
I guess if my job was horrible I wouldn’t care about the customers either. I wish you the best of luck in finding a prosperous new career.
Look at myt last email to United:
I am absolutely amazed that you would not grant this 500,00+ lifetime flyer the 121 miles needed to reach silver. I have a 4900+ mile flight booked for Jun 7 and will reach silver then, however it would be nice to have silver status prior to boarding that flight. Do you care that you treat customers so badly that they will go out of their way to never fly United? My last three experiences flying United have been horrible, due to the confusion caused by the merger. AND NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE. I HAD TO WRITE SMISEK via return receipt certified mail to get a refund owed me after making numerous calls and visits in person to United customer service. AND NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE ABOUT THE CUSTOMERS.
I guess if my job was horrible I wouldn’t care about the customers either. I wish you the best of luck in finding a prosperous new career.
May 25, 2012, 8:03 am
#1143
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: DEN
Programs: Delta Silver. Former AA gold. UA MP and DL Plat AMEX cardholder
Posts: 1,254
I'm convinced that at United it's only worth it to be a general member. Use miles for occasional upgrades, pay for E+, occasional comp club access. Mileage Plus is quite good but that's about it.
May 25, 2012, 8:55 am
#1144
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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This is a great statement. As a silver I totally support higher level elites being granted more than me, its only fair that way, and I'm totally fine with paying for something like an E+ annual option. However they still can't seem to figure out how to even make something like this that worked fine in Apollo/Fastair, work in SHARES.
Given that UA did that in the past, and DL gives Y/B/M EC access, it's uncompetitive not to do that.
I disagree. It's harder to get back a pissed off customer. Not only that, why would anyone go back to UA, especially internationally, when there are much better choices out there?
If one gets a status match and find the service to be at least as good as UA, it's harder to get them to move once they get settled in. UA actually has to be competitive and give those folks a reason to come back.
Yes, I know there will be some that thinks UA sucks less than what they tried, and they'll go back. I think we disagree on what that number is.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 25, 2012 at 9:47 am Reason: merge
May 25, 2012, 10:01 am
#1145
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Colorado
Programs: Lifetime UA 1K, Lifetime Hilton Diamond, Lifetime Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 1,261
Do any of you guys read Joesentme.com? 
THE REVENGE OF THE 'OVER-ENTITLED'
By Joe Brancatelli
May 24, 2012 --Every airline crisis comes with its own defining quotation. Some idiot airline executive eventually says something so truly inane that it perfectly defines the issue and simultaneously explains his regime's eventual downfall.
We now have the definition for the crisis at United Airlines. The buffoons in Chicago think we're "over-entitled."
<snip>
While chief executive Jeff Smisek is grabbing with both hands, more than tripling his annual compensation as his airline melts down, his new chief financial officer tells investors that United's frequent flyers have been "over-entitled."
A year from now, perhaps two, when Smisek is finally exposed, he will go. He will leave United in a mess, but he will be gone. He'll go back to Houston and the legal business from whence he came and he probably won't give a damn. But, at least, he will be gone and there will be a chance to save United Airlines.
The Revenge of the Over-Entitled will have toppled another despicable, self-important Skygod and we'll start again, hoping that the next moron will at least understand that you don't publicly criticize your most frequent, most loyal and most profitable customers.
<snip>
So let's thank John Rainey for his tongue-tied categorization of us as "over-entitled" because it defines the inevitable fall of Smisek. Just as the idiot Leo Mullin was doomed as Delta chief executive when he claimed the "airline industry cannot be the first casualty of this war" even as actual 9/11 victims were still buried in the rubble. Just as the buccaneer Stephen Wolf was doomed as top dog at US Airways by claiming "there is no Plan B" if US Airways could not merge with an earlier iteration of United. Just as the preening Gordon Bethune was eventually driven from the chief executive job at Continental after uttering the classic: "If you have to be in San Francisco for a presentation tomorrow, you are going. If I say it's $1,200 or it's $800, you are still going."
None of those men ever worked in an airline C-suite again. They took their ill-gotten gains, fled the scene of the corporate carnage they created and disappeared into Skygod Stovokor.
So you think we're "over-entitled," Jeff? That explains everything. When The Revenge of the Over-Entitled sweeps you out of the Chicago C-suite in the next year or two, make sure that your Golden Parachute includes lifetime free passes and GS status on United Airlines.
'Cause if it doesn't, you'll be just another "over-entitled" passenger sitting in coach on the flight back home to Houston. And ORD-IAH in coach, without status or an upgrade to E+, is a miserable place to be.
THE REVENGE OF THE 'OVER-ENTITLED'
By Joe Brancatelli
May 24, 2012 --Every airline crisis comes with its own defining quotation. Some idiot airline executive eventually says something so truly inane that it perfectly defines the issue and simultaneously explains his regime's eventual downfall.
We now have the definition for the crisis at United Airlines. The buffoons in Chicago think we're "over-entitled."
<snip>
While chief executive Jeff Smisek is grabbing with both hands, more than tripling his annual compensation as his airline melts down, his new chief financial officer tells investors that United's frequent flyers have been "over-entitled."
A year from now, perhaps two, when Smisek is finally exposed, he will go. He will leave United in a mess, but he will be gone. He'll go back to Houston and the legal business from whence he came and he probably won't give a damn. But, at least, he will be gone and there will be a chance to save United Airlines.
The Revenge of the Over-Entitled will have toppled another despicable, self-important Skygod and we'll start again, hoping that the next moron will at least understand that you don't publicly criticize your most frequent, most loyal and most profitable customers.
<snip>
So let's thank John Rainey for his tongue-tied categorization of us as "over-entitled" because it defines the inevitable fall of Smisek. Just as the idiot Leo Mullin was doomed as Delta chief executive when he claimed the "airline industry cannot be the first casualty of this war" even as actual 9/11 victims were still buried in the rubble. Just as the buccaneer Stephen Wolf was doomed as top dog at US Airways by claiming "there is no Plan B" if US Airways could not merge with an earlier iteration of United. Just as the preening Gordon Bethune was eventually driven from the chief executive job at Continental after uttering the classic: "If you have to be in San Francisco for a presentation tomorrow, you are going. If I say it's $1,200 or it's $800, you are still going."
None of those men ever worked in an airline C-suite again. They took their ill-gotten gains, fled the scene of the corporate carnage they created and disappeared into Skygod Stovokor.
So you think we're "over-entitled," Jeff? That explains everything. When The Revenge of the Over-Entitled sweeps you out of the Chicago C-suite in the next year or two, make sure that your Golden Parachute includes lifetime free passes and GS status on United Airlines.
'Cause if it doesn't, you'll be just another "over-entitled" passenger sitting in coach on the flight back home to Houston. And ORD-IAH in coach, without status or an upgrade to E+, is a miserable place to be.
Clearly they are optimizing stock performance for the next two years at which point they will leave with a lot of money.
May 25, 2012, 10:16 am
#1146
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IAD-DCA
Programs: Won Kay
Posts: 1,324
I know many of your are incensed, and perhaps legitimately so.
Then again, I believe this was an honest statement of the business model at CO, namely that high-end frequent flyers are not worth the company's energy if they are buying a lot of cheap seats and require a costly and unwieldy infrastructure to manage them.
Why would UaCo be excited about a 1K who achieves his status on the least expensive fares and then expects constant perks such as free upgrades, a dedicated CS line, and semi-official exemptions from fees and rules?
UaCo would just as soon fill those same seats with equally cheap kettles who expect nothing in return and might even occasionally spend some hard cash (even if only ToD's) to sit in FC. If a kettle needs to change a ticket, or do SDC, he or she is paying for it at full dollar value. If they want to sit in E+, they're paying for it, etc.
I'm not saying the CO approach is right, but that's their business model.
Then again, I believe this was an honest statement of the business model at CO, namely that high-end frequent flyers are not worth the company's energy if they are buying a lot of cheap seats and require a costly and unwieldy infrastructure to manage them.
Why would UaCo be excited about a 1K who achieves his status on the least expensive fares and then expects constant perks such as free upgrades, a dedicated CS line, and semi-official exemptions from fees and rules?
UaCo would just as soon fill those same seats with equally cheap kettles who expect nothing in return and might even occasionally spend some hard cash (even if only ToD's) to sit in FC. If a kettle needs to change a ticket, or do SDC, he or she is paying for it at full dollar value. If they want to sit in E+, they're paying for it, etc.
I'm not saying the CO approach is right, but that's their business model.
Then UA needs to drop whatever pretense they have for a frequent flier program and substitute points for miles.
Points would accrue as a function of segments/miles flown/fare basis/cost.
In this construct, I could potentially make 1K with ony 2 R/Ts in full-fare First on a TPAC for example.
I wouldn't like it, but it would be better than putting up with someone pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining.
May 25, 2012, 2:27 pm
#1147
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
I disagree. It's harder to get back a pissed off customer. Not only that, why would anyone go back to UA, especially internationally, when there are much better choices out there?
If one gets a status match and find the service to be at least as good as UA, it's harder to get them to move once they get settled in. UA actually has to be competitive and give those folks a reason to come back.
Yes, I know there will be some that thinks UA sucks less than what they tried, and they'll go back. I think we disagree on what that number is.
Nothing has changed.
The only reason to not fly UA out of SFO is 1) spite or 2) I am a kayaker (in which case UA will still get most my business.
SFO and the other UA hubs? Most will return.
LA (more options) or smaller airports where you have to connect anyway may see a larger % permanent defections.
May 25, 2012, 2:52 pm
#1148
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BUR / LAX
Programs: UA MM/Gold; WN A-list; HH something depending; Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,554
entitled
THE REVENGE OF THE 'OVER-ENTITLED'
By Joe Brancatelli
So you think we're "over-entitled," Jeff? That explains everything. When The Revenge of the Over-Entitled sweeps you out of the Chicago C-suite in the next year or two, make sure that your Golden Parachute includes lifetime free passes and GS status on United Airlines.
'Cause if it doesn't, you'll be just another "over-entitled" passenger sitting in coach on the flight back home to Houston. And ORD-IAH in coach, without status or an upgrade to E+, is a miserable place to be.
“Flight Benefits. Flight benefits at the level provided to retired officers of UAL immediately prior to the Merger for the remainder of the executive’s lifetime, grossed-up for income tax on imputed income up to an annual cap...”
United Continental’s current executives will also get these lifetime benefits when they leave, so long as they are not terminated “for cause.” Per the proxy, the flight benefits for Jeffery Smisek, Zane Rowe, Peter McDonald, James Compton, and Irene Foxhall are worth a collective $256,002, and tax gross-up benefits that the company will pay on their behalf are worth more than $1.046 million.
Furthermore, Smisek:
“…is entitled to two parking spaces at the Company’s hub airports in Houston, Texas and Chicago, Illinois for the remainder of his lifetime. The aggregate current annual cost of these parking spaces is approximately $1,200, which has not been separately valued for purposes of the above table.”
I wonder if the definition of lifetime matches the MM flyer definition.
May 25, 2012, 2:54 pm
#1149
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: UA 1K 3.01MM Hyatt Globalist (Lifetime) AA ExPlat (real), Lifetime UniClub (not from the 2MM).
Posts: 173
The only reason to not fly UA out of SFO is 1) spite or 2) I am a kayaker (in which case UA will still get most my business.
- One cares about service.
- One care about the value of FF benefits.
SFO and the other UA hubs? Most will return.
LA (more options) or smaller airports where you have to connect anyway may see a larger % permanent defections.
May 25, 2012, 3:08 pm
#1150
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
Does anyone think he has a point... Not about upgrades and EQM bonuses etc
I'm thinking more of the ding...ding...ding
Stewardess!!!
My reading lights not working
They ran out of my meal choice
My seat cushion's lumpy
Where's my compensation certificate?
Upgrades and perks were the norm on PMCO... It was that kind of 'revenue dilution' that was lacking
I'm thinking more of the ding...ding...ding
Stewardess!!!
My reading lights not working
They ran out of my meal choice
My seat cushion's lumpy
Where's my compensation certificate?
Upgrades and perks were the norm on PMCO... It was that kind of 'revenue dilution' that was lacking
May 25, 2012, 3:30 pm
#1151
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DEN
Programs: UA1K Million Mile Flyer, *G, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 10
Un-freaking-believable
So Rainey thinks that we are over entitled and he chooses a conference sponsored by the likes of Bank of America and Morgan Stanley as his opportunity to go on record? Really? I am sure the BoA and MS people were a receptive audience because their firms allow them to book Y and F, but did he think this would not enrage the customer base?
I am a serial 1K, MMF who is tired already of the new UG process, the devaluation of SWU and RU, the new boarding process, the food that is worse than 7-11 and many other things that have changed for the worse in the past several months. Quite frankly, I am livid.
For one, I think we all need to work together to make certain that UA does NOT win the "Best Loyalty Program" this year. Let's kill that marketing tool now.
As for their on time arrival, you have to be kidding me on that one, right UA? You universally and arbitrarily added 30 minutes to every route flight time you serve and then claim the best on time performance. If I tell you I will pay you for my ticket next year and do so in 11 months, will you give me an early payment discount?
How stupid do these people think we are? Never mind, I think I know the answer to that already.
I am a serial 1K, MMF who is tired already of the new UG process, the devaluation of SWU and RU, the new boarding process, the food that is worse than 7-11 and many other things that have changed for the worse in the past several months. Quite frankly, I am livid.
For one, I think we all need to work together to make certain that UA does NOT win the "Best Loyalty Program" this year. Let's kill that marketing tool now.
As for their on time arrival, you have to be kidding me on that one, right UA? You universally and arbitrarily added 30 minutes to every route flight time you serve and then claim the best on time performance. If I tell you I will pay you for my ticket next year and do so in 11 months, will you give me an early payment discount?
How stupid do these people think we are? Never mind, I think I know the answer to that already.
May 25, 2012, 4:04 pm
#1152
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO, LON
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Bonvoy Tit, Hilton Dia etc etc
Posts: 2,354
For all that we have plenty to disagree about these days, I don't think LarkSFO is so far off base here. It will require a fair amount of effort to not fly UA out of SFO or IAH (and possibly DEN, IAD). EWR, ORD and LAX are in more competitive markets.
Moving to AA at SFO requires me to care about service more than I care about how long it takes to fly A to B. I may be inclined to be in that camp, but pretty much anyone else I know who flies a fair bit is not so inclined in the long run (I haven't attended many FT events, clearly!). It's one thing to speak for myself, as someone who likes spending time on planes and will often choose to fly weirder routes to extract small savings, guarantee an upgrade or flat out just go through an airport I like better. I know for a fact, though, that the way I make these decisions is not the way the majority of people on a plane do.
I don't feel terribly optimistic about UA myself, and think that the comments and attitudes of senior management suggest a business that is not going to have an easy time in the near future. But I'm open to the view that I may be wrong about this, even if I am probably one of those folks who won't go back so easily. I've left two other FF programs and preferred airlines already in the last ten years, without going back any time soon, so if by summer's end I decide to leave UA, it won't be for the short term.
Moving to AA at SFO requires me to care about service more than I care about how long it takes to fly A to B. I may be inclined to be in that camp, but pretty much anyone else I know who flies a fair bit is not so inclined in the long run (I haven't attended many FT events, clearly!). It's one thing to speak for myself, as someone who likes spending time on planes and will often choose to fly weirder routes to extract small savings, guarantee an upgrade or flat out just go through an airport I like better. I know for a fact, though, that the way I make these decisions is not the way the majority of people on a plane do.
I don't feel terribly optimistic about UA myself, and think that the comments and attitudes of senior management suggest a business that is not going to have an easy time in the near future. But I'm open to the view that I may be wrong about this, even if I am probably one of those folks who won't go back so easily. I've left two other FF programs and preferred airlines already in the last ten years, without going back any time soon, so if by summer's end I decide to leave UA, it won't be for the short term.
May 25, 2012, 4:14 pm
#1153
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,613
While IAD is a UA fortress, those of us in the DC area have DCA and BWI - not that I would use the latter.
May 25, 2012, 8:39 pm
#1154
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ORD
Programs: Newly minted AA EXP Plat., disatisfied UA 1K, Marriott Silver & Hilton Gold
Posts: 704
So did the CFO ever apologize for his stupid commentary or did he get a bonus? This is a joke of a management team. I can't believe they managed Continental. The shareholders are the biggest idiots for allowing these cowboys in the door - unbelievable!
May 25, 2012, 9:46 pm
#1155
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Programs: UA 2P, PassPlus Flex, LAX Customer of the Year for 2006, UAL Shareholder
Posts: 328
Got an e-mail from investor relations wanting to call me on Tuesday to discuss.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 25, 2012 at 9:50 pm Reason: merge