PanAmWT

Many of us SFO based 1Ks are primarily TPAC business flyers. I know in the future I will be flying other SA airlines whenever it makes sense because of schedule, route, and fare rather than always choosing UA and going out of the way to connect at NRT as in the past.. I will give up UA's bonus RDM but I will gain a lot in better service and time saved.

Sprezzatura

Great letter, very touching. I hope it gets a response.

gradsflyer

Very true. Even as a lowly silver (maybe gold this year) all my long hauls are TPAC, and since I can fly with really top quality service on other *A carriers, (TG, NH, OZ, etc.) this is what I tend to do and just earn the miles on UA. Even CA has really upped its game to a level comparable or even better than UA. The new international CA 773ERs provide an excellent soft and hard product, which I must say is certainly as good if not better than UA.

76Patriots

I assume you are not speaking of domestic.....otherwise UA has indoctrinated you well. Have you seen VX's domestic route map from SFO? Have you experienced how vastly superior VX's hard product is over UA? Unequivocally there is sufficient reason to fly non UA out of SFO.

Obviously UA is a huge presence in SFO. If someone is SFO based and flies a big variety of domestic destinations, you will very likely fly UA at some points (I am a perfect example). However, after UA's strategic decision to water down the benefits of flying exclusively with them (perfectly their right to do), I looked around. I ended up trying VX. Wow! I'm now at 3 SFO-IAD flights since March. I'll tell you what, UA better hope VX's business model won't allow A) further route expansion from SFO, B) an elite program or C) joining an alliance. Even just B and C (supposedly some level of C is coming) will make VX super attractive for SFO based flyers.

garykung

Can you move the Board for a motion to dismiss CFO summarily?

I will back you up with my share as well

GadgetFreak

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B206 Safari/7534.48.3)

On the other hand the less beneficial that the UA FF program is for elites, the less important Virgin doing B is. And that is the other edge of the sword for diluting elite benefits.

FlyWorld

My logic is the same. After about 8-10 years of 100% loyalty to UA, I'm just now starting to learn how *A works, since I'd never before considered it out of SFO.

If we fly *A on Y, B, Z fare then we still get 150% EQM bonus, right?

You're saying we don't get the 100% RDM bonus (i.e. double miles)?

UA-NYC

EQM doesn't change

Elite RDM bonus on those airlines in the ATIs (LH, NH, AC, US, etc.) when flying across an ocean, but not on ones not in the ATIs (SQ, OZ, LX, TG, JJ, etc.)

Believe the same holds for the paid premium COS bonus...A fare on UA gets you more COS RDM than an A fare on SQ, for example.

LarkSFO

I do appreciate the growth of VA's SFO based route map, and I think it complements the 'Kayaker' strategy perfectly. (As I have stated before, the only competition UA has at SFO is 'the field'. No single airline stands up to UA and *A from SFO.)

Here are the 13 destinations I can fly non-stop from SFO on VA: Boston, JFK, IAD, Orlando, FLL, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Los Cabos, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, San Diego and Las Vegas.

Not bad, and I do like their hard and soft product, but in no way can I build a single airline strategy around this route map.

Tongue in cheek: How many free upgrades did you receive?

So, not only did you not receive any status / elite benefits from VA, you have now also shot yourself in the foot and put yourself in danger of missing 1K next year. (maybe you fly enough that these three R/T's on VA won't prevent you from also making 1K, but I don't.)

Kayaker is a viable strategy.

But I prefer to put the lions share of my flying on UA because regardless of what you hear on FT, 1K is still an incredibly valuable elite level with many benefits that I truly appreciate. (I say this sitting in South Beach after having flown here in AA F! Non-stop flights are one of my top criteria, and SFO-MIA is AA only...)



I hate to bring poilitcs in to the discussion, but look at Houston as an example...

In the case of San Francisco, UA has a HUGE presence and employee base here. If SFO starts to allow UA's competitors too much of a foothold, might UA just rattle their sabre and say something like 'we are considering consolidating our maintenance operations anywhere but SFO'?

Again, it's politics, but if you look at Houston as an example UA is not afraid to play this game.

GadgetFreak

But I think that is the point. Some people are thinking that the advantages of 1k are becoming less than the advantages of flying competitors, even those without a good FF program.

PanAmWT

EQM doesn't change for most but not all *A airlines. For example, CA does not give fare bonus EQM. But even if I were not life-time 1K (3MM BIS) I consider this actally an advantage. because I fly more than 100K miles each year, accumulating EQM too fast gets me an earlier expiration date of the first six GPUs (SWUs). These upgrades are increasingly difficult to use, an earlier expiration date make more of them useless. In fact, many 1Ks who fly 150-200K miles are diverting business from UA to establish status elsewhere, or at least to slow down the accumulaiton of EQMs.

For those *A partners that do not match UA's status bonus RDM (100% for 1K), the lost in RDM benefit is not that great when one considers what a revenue C ticket costs. At a couple cents a mile, this is compensated by a better premium cabin service, sometimes a lower fare, and sometimes by avoiding an unnecessary conection at NRT.

Beerman92

I must be special because I can fly to 17 destinations non-stop from SFO

Your list is missing DFW, ORD, PDX, PHL and SEA

VX seems to be adding destinations about once every 1-2 months out of SFO

FlyWorld

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that a 1K flying on one of those *A carriers will get 100% RDM bonus plus 150% EQM bonus in Y/B/Z only if crossing an ocean but not if flying within territory? Don't know what ATI is.

uastarflyer

Anti trust (immunity?) agreement. UA has it with LH and NH so if you fly either of them over the ocean it's just like flying UA from a redeemable miles and EQM standpoint (and in many cases I've seen the same price). But does not count for million mile status on UA.

I've decided to no longer pursue 1K with personal $ like I have in the past. Gold is good enough.

And given UA cut the RDM bonus to 50% for golds, that has reduced the oppty cost (switching cost) to fly other *A carriers, and thus I have broken a 10 year 100% UA metal record for transpac travel. If going to Europe I'll still consider UA as I loathe LH.

76Patriots

There isn't anything patently false about this response with the exception of the VA (sorry I was using VX before) route map. However, your original thought is patently false. You said the only reason not to choose UA out of SFO is because of spite.....and that is egregiously false.

To some of the points of your response: (as another poster mentioned) the watering down of the UA benefits is the point of looking elsewhere. It is the give and take of the process, the comparison, the how much can UA take away and still make it the best choice to fly with them. I have been fortunate enough to be Main Cabin Select each VA flight so far. Even the most ardent carrier of Smi/J's water cannot argue this point. VA drubs UA (having a few wide body options is one for UA though).

Route/Availability is still a UA positive. The issue I am having with VA (as someone who purchases tix within 10 days of departure date a lot), I'm finding VA is difficult to get the seats I want in that tight time frame. On UA not so much. But for where I fly the route map is not often, though sometimes, an issue for using VA. Bottom line, provided I can purchase Tix far enough out, the win for UA here is not that significant.

FF perks is still a win for UA but the gap is closing especially with UA upgs becoming almost extinct. A VA main cabin select purchase is giving me just about all pre boarding perks that I am accustomed to with UA (but it is my understanding that main cabin does not). The RDM accrual and redemption is still an unknown to me (I'm too new to VA). However, this overall point is the crux. UA made it easy to overlook their vastly inferior hard product because the perks were more than an equalizer. Even for someone like yourself who is a UA diehard (nothing wrong with that - that is your choice), you must admit this just isn't so clear anymore is it?

On the point of politics, I have zero doubt UA will use threats et al to keep their hold on SFO. That doesn't make UA the bad guy, it simply means business is business. Any airline will try to keep competition at bay. However I have my doubts UA is in a extremely strong position with SFO. IMHO UA needs SFO more than SFO needs UA (again, imho). If UA used a threat to SFO, SFO could just as easily say "we're thinking of letting more of the LAX TPAC competition come to SFO. Whatcha think about that?"