United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 23, 2012, 4:52 pm
#1066
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: Mosaic 2, Bonvoy Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Premium Cabin free agent
Posts: 848
Thanks for that info. No, I did not think about all of that. I guess people being people, we tend to get angry about what hurts us personally first. Since I'm in good shape upgrade wise w UA, I've had other things to concentrate my anger on with them (mm benies, Rude CS, 1K line (phone and airport). I am not moving to AA only because I don't think they are better for my use. For someone else though they may be perfect. I'm very happy with BA right now and I realize they are partners w UA, But it's PSBL to keep 1K on UA and direct travel to BA as well (I'll be happy to give up the miles on UA for the service)
From F on AA using GoGo (free for the next year as a gift from AA for loyalty). As a former customer of PMUA, I always thought United generally hates their customers and wished they would just go away and stop bothering them, so I find it amusing to see MP members figuring it out and joining AA. I am at least 99% on upgrades over the last five years as EXP. Can anyone from UA say that? From any fare purchased?
Ever since witnessing a SFO gate agent deride a frantic father for creating a scene when UA lost his seven year old daughter with a missed connection, offering no information, I would rather crawl than fly UA.
Welcome to AA, where the staff actually seems to be grateful to help you out and have you as a customer.
Ever since witnessing a SFO gate agent deride a frantic father for creating a scene when UA lost his seven year old daughter with a missed connection, offering no information, I would rather crawl than fly UA.
Welcome to AA, where the staff actually seems to be grateful to help you out and have you as a customer.
May 23, 2012, 4:57 pm
#1067
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
I have more than that, even as I understand you have your opinions and your own personal experiences.
A recommendation without applicability, as nowhere have I done what you suggest above.
It may, if only there was any merit in your post's suggestion in your sentence prior to the above one.
Nowhere have I claimed anything about the experiences of "every elite" being monolithic in nature. When false suggestion, as in your post above, is the basis of the entire paragraph above or of a position, that seems to indicate poor position to acknowledge in public what is objective and not. No surprise that there is going to have to be agreement to disagree, when those who doubt objectivity are not interested in objectivity and transparency as much as interested in some sort of defense effort of the status quo.
A recommendation without applicability, as nowhere have I done what you suggest above.
It may, if only there was any merit in your post's suggestion in your sentence prior to the above one.
Nowhere have I claimed anything about the experiences of "every elite" being monolithic in nature. When false suggestion, as in your post above, is the basis of the entire paragraph above or of a position, that seems to indicate poor position to acknowledge in public what is objective and not. No surprise that there is going to have to be agreement to disagree, when those who doubt objectivity are not interested in objectivity and transparency as much as interested in some sort of defense effort of the status quo.
I'll take one part of your post and let's leave it at that: 'No surprise that there is going to have to be agreement to disagree...'
May 23, 2012, 5:02 pm
#1068
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TPE
Programs: UA Gold, HA Premier, Hertz #1 Gold PC, SBUX Gold
Posts: 603
+1 As a *A person this is the one area I end up lacking in flight coverage as well. There are several routes in China served by CZ and MU, which are both ST now versus being able to get a flight on CA/*A. I think the merger of MU and Shanghai causing Shanghai to exit *A was also not helpful. I just can't see myself putting a lot of other flying into an ST airline beyond flights in China where I can't fly CA though. If I do go out of network I think OW is more likely in terms of overall coverge and premium Asian airlines like CX/KA.
May 23, 2012, 5:07 pm
#1069
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP sad former CK, Bonvoy LT Plat, BAEC Gold, VS, former UA, UA no longer, never, ever, QF
Posts: 228
Welcome UEF part deux
No problem! Thanks again for what you did. AA works for me out of LAX, the only two TPAC routes they fly are usually the only ones I need! I have to connect at NRT everytime I go with UA. There are some intra-china flights that I take that would be better served if I went to skyteam but DL's program is just not worth the switch to get better service on 2 hour flights on CZ around China.
Thanks for the welcome! I dipped my toe into the AA world back in March only because UA cut a frequency that they used to have to LAS for some reason and I refused to fly WN so I booked AA and bought up to F even on that short of a flight. I was very impressed with the way their LAX elite line was laid out compared to the cluster that is T6 UA. Just a plain old metal detector in the eilte security screening area ^ Not to mention the flight was on a 738 which looked like new equipment. Real plugs in F, and the seats looked nicer than anything I have flown in while in UA domestic F. Then I found out there were showers at the AC so now I am sold! I never bought a membership to the UC but still got in there for the majority of my flights but I will be sure to get a membership tot he AC prior to my flight next week. I know there are the mad dogs out there but so far I have been able to avoid booking them.
Thanks for the welcome! I dipped my toe into the AA world back in March only because UA cut a frequency that they used to have to LAS for some reason and I refused to fly WN so I booked AA and bought up to F even on that short of a flight. I was very impressed with the way their LAX elite line was laid out compared to the cluster that is T6 UA. Just a plain old metal detector in the eilte security screening area ^ Not to mention the flight was on a 738 which looked like new equipment. Real plugs in F, and the seats looked nicer than anything I have flown in while in UA domestic F. Then I found out there were showers at the AC so now I am sold! I never bought a membership to the UC but still got in there for the majority of my flights but I will be sure to get a membership tot he AC prior to my flight next week. I know there are the mad dogs out there but so far I have been able to avoid booking them.
May 23, 2012, 5:15 pm
#1070
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP sad former CK, Bonvoy LT Plat, BAEC Gold, VS, former UA, UA no longer, never, ever, QF
Posts: 228
Last thought
No problem! Thanks again for what you did. AA works for me out of LAX, the only two TPAC routes they fly are usually the only ones I need! I have to connect at NRT everytime I go with UA. There are some intra-china flights that I take that would be better served if I went to skyteam but DL's program is just not worth the switch to get better service on 2 hour flights on CZ around China.
Thanks for the welcome! I dipped my toe into the AA world back in March only because UA cut a frequency that they used to have to LAS for some reason and I refused to fly WN so I booked AA and bought up to F even on that short of a flight. I was very impressed with the way their LAX elite line was laid out compared to the cluster that is T6 UA. Just a plain old metal detector in the eilte security screening area ^ Not to mention the flight was on a 738 which looked like new equipment. Real plugs in F, and the seats looked nicer than anything I have flown in while in UA domestic F. Then I found out there were showers at the AC so now I am sold! I never bought a membership to the UC but still got in there for the majority of my flights but I will be sure to get a membership tot he AC prior to my flight next week. I know there are the mad dogs out there but so far I have been able to avoid booking them.
Thanks for the welcome! I dipped my toe into the AA world back in March only because UA cut a frequency that they used to have to LAS for some reason and I refused to fly WN so I booked AA and bought up to F even on that short of a flight. I was very impressed with the way their LAX elite line was laid out compared to the cluster that is T6 UA. Just a plain old metal detector in the eilte security screening area ^ Not to mention the flight was on a 738 which looked like new equipment. Real plugs in F, and the seats looked nicer than anything I have flown in while in UA domestic F. Then I found out there were showers at the AC so now I am sold! I never bought a membership to the UC but still got in there for the majority of my flights but I will be sure to get a membership tot he AC prior to my flight next week. I know there are the mad dogs out there but so far I have been able to avoid booking them.
May 23, 2012, 5:16 pm
#1071
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
From F on AA using GoGo (free for the next year as a gift from AA for loyalty). As a former customer of PMUA, I always thought United generally hates their customers and wished they would just go away and stop bothering them, so I find it amusing to see MP members figuring it out and joining AA. I am at least 99% on upgrades over the last five years as EXP. Can anyone from UA say that? From any fare purchased?
Ever since witnessing a SFO gate agent deride a frantic father for creating a scene when UA lost his seven year old daughter with a missed connection, offering no information, I would rather crawl than fly UA.
Welcome to AA, where the staff actually seems to be grateful to help you out and have you as a customer.
Ever since witnessing a SFO gate agent deride a frantic father for creating a scene when UA lost his seven year old daughter with a missed connection, offering no information, I would rather crawl than fly UA.
Welcome to AA, where the staff actually seems to be grateful to help you out and have you as a customer.
As I said to UNITEDEF, the upgrade argument does not work on me. Your 99%' I'm 29/30 (same thing). You pointing out the GOGO, now that's a reason right there to switch to AA. Please don't get me wrong, I'm as angry at UA as anybody and certainly not making excuses for there behavior since 3/3. There is no excuse. I got the EXPLAT match buT I'm just not ready to give up yet on UA 100%. There are problems with all 3 1/2 legacy carriers and none of them are worth bragging about IMO. For now, I plan to keep my domestic flights w UA, My TPAC w SQ (who I would never make 1K without) and all my travel in/out of Dubai w EK (which is half my travel) Where UA is losing my business is TATL - I'm taking my new EXPLAT AA card and going over to BA (I don't use upgrades on those routes and prefer keeping my business off us carriers. When I fly LH, UA get half. So let AA get half of my BA revenue, as long as I don't have to sit on one of there (or any American carriers planes)
May 23, 2012, 5:27 pm
#1072
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP sad former CK, Bonvoy LT Plat, BAEC Gold, VS, former UA, UA no longer, never, ever, QF
Posts: 228
Respect, to quote Ali G, it is why they make different flavors of ice cream
As I said to UNITEDEF, the upgrade argument does not work on me. Your 99%' I'm 29/30 (same thing). You pointing out the GOGO, now that's a reason right there to switch to AA. Please don't get me wrong, I'm as angry at UA as anybody and certainly not making excuses for there behavior since 3/3. There is no excuse. I got the EXPLAT match buT I'm just not ready to give up yet on UA 100%. There are problems with all 3 1/2 legacy carriers and none of them are worth bragging about IMO. For now, I plan to keep my domestic flights w UA, My TPAC w SQ (who I would never make 1K without) and all my travel in/out of Dubai w EK (which is half my travel) Where UA is losing my business is TATL - I'm taking my new EXPLAT AA card and going over to BA (I don't use upgrades on those routes and prefer keeping my business off us carriers. When I fly LH, UA get half. So let AA get half of my BA revenue, as long as I don't have to sit on one of there (or any American carriers planes)
AA's new 777W starts February JFK-LHR. New F and J product. AA PJs are decent in AA TATL F, as is the mattress cover and turn down service.
May 23, 2012, 5:59 pm
#1073
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: DAL
Programs: UA 1K AA EXP
Posts: 632
May 23, 2012, 6:27 pm
#1074
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
+1 As a *A person this is the one area I end up lacking in flight coverage as well. There are several routes in China served by CZ and MU, which are both ST now versus being able to get a flight on CA/*A. I think the merger of MU and Shanghai causing Shanghai to exit *A was also not helpful. I just can't see myself putting a lot of other flying into an ST airline beyond flights in China where I can't fly CA though. If I do go out of network I think OW is more likely in terms of overall coverge and premium Asian airlines like CX/KA.
May 23, 2012, 6:42 pm
#1075
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TPE
Programs: UA Gold, HA Premier, Hertz #1 Gold PC, SBUX Gold
Posts: 603
BR will be nice, but it was the lack of intra-China flights beyond CA I was mostly referring to. They get outnumbered on China domestics with both MU and CZ being in ST, and with Shanghai leaving *A during the merger with MU.
May 23, 2012, 6:43 pm
#1076
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hoboken, NJ; Pembroke Pines, FL
Programs: CO Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,939
My last minute fares are rarely Y/B or even M. I almost never purchase more than a day in advance - often buy on the way to the airport (well, I used to do that, with the magic that is SHARES, that is a big risk now). Given the ToDs sales, I think I have had 1 upgrade in my last 10 flights, so no, I do not like the changes.
I am not a fan of UDU (never was), and think their new priorities make loyalty meaningless.
Their new system reminds me of why I hated Ted (and despite having a house in Orlando, frequent conferences in Las Vegas and living in LA never flew it).
As someone who books last minute with load factors as high as they are, upgrades matter to me in one of two ways: either I get one, or someone in an E+ seat gets one and I can get their old E+ seat. Given that Ted had no First Class there were no upgrades that meant that the full E+ seats remained full. United's current system ensures that there are no E+ seats (cheap sales in advance and at the kiosk) and that there are no upgrades (again, usually sold-out thanks to ToDs) for me or to free and E+ seat.
As someone who books last minute with load factors as high as they are, upgrades matter to me in one of two ways: either I get one, or someone in an E+ seat gets one and I can get their old E+ seat. Given that Ted had no First Class there were no upgrades that meant that the full E+ seats remained full. United's current system ensures that there are no E+ seats (cheap sales in advance and at the kiosk) and that there are no upgrades (again, usually sold-out thanks to ToDs) for me or to free and E+ seat.
What could be happening is that Golds, Plats and 1Ks are getting E+ aisles while the silvers are either getting E+ middles or staying in their E- aisles. For Shannon's statement to be literally true the former would have to happen in order for all the statements to be true and consistent.
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 23, 2012 at 11:33 pm Reason: merge
May 23, 2012, 6:51 pm
#1077
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: Mosaic 2, Bonvoy Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Premium Cabin free agent
Posts: 848
. I am sure he could have got a partial refund but it wasn't worth his time. Not impressed.
May 23, 2012, 7:18 pm
#1078
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 303
CFO Rainey,
I thought I'd post up with my small beans, chump change story relative to most others on FT. I've been 2P since 2003/2004. My wife has been 2P on and off most of that time as well. We have not been on anything other than United since around 1997, IIRC.
The E-+ seating lottery for 2Ps has lost your guaranteed business of ours in favor of anything more direct and less expensive. I'm sure leisure elites like ourselves aren't a great profit maker on paper, but I'm sure we subsidize those otherwise empty seats and fuel costs that help keep you in business.
For the first time in 15 years, my wife stepped onto other metal, Southwest, on a recent trip BOI-PHX. She always asked me why take United with stops and longer travel time. I have no answer for her any longer...
"You're out.℠"
boiflyer
I thought I'd post up with my small beans, chump change story relative to most others on FT. I've been 2P since 2003/2004. My wife has been 2P on and off most of that time as well. We have not been on anything other than United since around 1997, IIRC.
The E-+ seating lottery for 2Ps has lost your guaranteed business of ours in favor of anything more direct and less expensive. I'm sure leisure elites like ourselves aren't a great profit maker on paper, but I'm sure we subsidize those otherwise empty seats and fuel costs that help keep you in business.
For the first time in 15 years, my wife stepped onto other metal, Southwest, on a recent trip BOI-PHX. She always asked me why take United with stops and longer travel time. I have no answer for her any longer...
"You're out.℠"
boiflyer
May 23, 2012, 8:03 pm
#1079
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
Why have you chosen to interpret his comments as referring to you specifically? We seem to be over-run here with people (from Silvers to 1K / GS) jumping at the chance to say that the comments MUST apply to them, and then are suitably outraged. I just don't get the mentality.
After reading your long letter I can only conclude that your complaint (besides wanting him to take back his comment about "you") is that as a Silver elite you can't reserve E+ seats in advance, after a letter that focuses exclusively on your purchasing F / C fares. Is this it?
Less really is more when trying to make a point to executives.
After reading your long letter I can only conclude that your complaint (besides wanting him to take back his comment about "you") is that as a Silver elite you can't reserve E+ seats in advance, after a letter that focuses exclusively on your purchasing F / C fares. Is this it?
Less really is more when trying to make a point to executives.
[bolding mine]
May 23, 2012, 8:08 pm
#1080
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PBI
Programs: DL Plat, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 427
A friend sent me this earlier today....
