ric_wx

I've tried to give these guys the benefit of the doubt on a lot of this stuff, but they are making it incredibly hard to continue. I haven't flown once on DL since Q2 2007 and only a handful of AA segments in that time. That's over .5MM in the past 5 years, the vast majority on UA or other associated *A carriers. I carry the UA credit card and use it for all my business purchases. Made 1K for 4 consecutive years and could make it again, but why bother? I haven't had a single 2012 GPU or RPU clear - the handful I spent prior to 3/3 were amassed the prior year and were about to expire anyway, just like this years will but in larger quantity.

Based on my travel patterns, and the fact I am based at a UA hub, it won't be particularly easy to maintain high tier status on a competitor or to avoid UA completely in the future. We both seem to understand this and act accordingly. Seems as if my options are to stay with UA, and expect the same mediocre service as anybody else, or go elsewhere and expect mediocre service.

I was very optimistic about the potential for this merger and it appears I was very wrong. It's disappointing, like when a relationship unexpectedly goes sour with a old and dear friend, with no obvious path for reconciliation.

FlyingNut724

If one is forced to pick a carrier on a flight-by-flight basis, which is what Rainey's comments appear he wants us to do, then DEN has great non-UA alternatives to: (1) many domestic locations due to the presence of F9 and WN and (2) to Europe (via direct BA flight to LHR, LH flight to FRA and now FI to Iceland), flying DEN to Asia always requires a stop somewhere, so why not F9/WN to LAX and on to a real customer oriented airline. It didn't make it to the 10/11 busiest airport in the world solely on UA.

If you take the benefits out of the FF program than there are choices out there for many PMUA cities. Of course, it would be more palatable to many of us, if AA just expanded our options in many of these cities.

MojaveFlyer

Except that the kettles do not fly enough to create any loyalty. The loyalty I have, because I like the way I'm treated (when things work, or at least, as they were before 3/3), means I just buy my tix on UA and I don't comparison shop. We all know that if you shop only on price, you'd often fly another carrier.

And they've had me hooked for 30 years now! No matter how you look at it, that's a chunk of revenue. And I don't think it cost much to give it to me. GAs and FAs who know you by name, pilots who send back their cards, upgrades into otherwise empty F seats (they could get rid of F for all I care, I never get the UG now!).

blug

What's the big deal here? Does everyone think a company should always flatter the customers and never tell their true feelings?

If one likes a company who keeps flattering the customers by telling how great they are, yet giving them no real benefits, he should really try DL.

Try to use a SWU on DL.

Also, have you heard of FCM of DL? There are numerous reports that DL doesn't release upgrade inventory even if there are 14 out of 16 F seats available. In the last few days before a flight, F seats are sold very cheap. Essentially the same as TOD.

At least it is better than some other companies who keeps promising "improvements" and "enhancement" but never ever realize them, including a famous airline as large as UA.

By the way, for those who feel offended by the "over entitled" thing, here's the opposite thing: this guy keeps telling you how important you are and how hard they have been working for you, however.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh9nD9IBkhg

Which one is more disgusting?

apodo77

And they are in bankruptcy and might get bought out by US Airways.
As I said above our DFW based folks both love AA (the upgrades on the cheapest fare possible) and hate AA (older, grumpy cabin crew and even older planes).

I just don't see how AA has a sustainable business model leaving tons of revenue untapped and that includes making some fares not upgradable and holding back a few seats for TOD upgrades. it is their job to make money after all.

I am a very frequent flyer and I know I am in the minority with my views but that is how I see it. I am more concerned with getting from point A to point B cheaply and being provided basic customer service. If I am upgraded great (usually am by the way on AS) but if I am not so be it. I will still have a good seat.

LeviFlight

Someone said that SFO has few other options. ? Along the west coast there is AS and VX. To DC and NY there is AA (not direct but they feed you - which I have been told is an edge for some going to DC on a Monday am), VX, US for parts of the States, and internationally a full spectrum of carriers- some mediocre like UA some quality.

Were it not for the mileage plus program I would not consider UA out of SFO at all.

pdx1M

This is the strange thing about their direction. They seem to want to move to a strictly transactional relationship with the customer. That's ok I guess but then they have to win the business over and over again on each transaction. That means either cheapest or best service at same price. For the most part UA isn't a winner in a lot of places using such transactional metrics - particularly international. You can often buy cheaper tickets for pretty much equivalent service or spend the same (sometimes less) and fly international carriers well known to beat UA service by a lot. It was the FF program that leveled the playing field for UA. If they want to go transactional they have a lot of work ahead of them to produce a consistently winning product.

OnAMileHigh

And of course the new "face" of UA, SMI/J, did not have the testicular fortitude to deliver the message himself. Instead, we have various levels of subordinate execs delivering the message on his behalf. What a coward.

demkr

I get what you're saying there and it's got some important points.

As far as US, I believe they also have a generous upgrade program that upgrades their top elites like 7 days in advance?

If they combined them without making too many changes, it could be good. But I do fear that if UA sets the new low standard, the rest will follow. Time will tell.

Parker has been able to do good things at US though, especially wifi and improvements in F service.

I hear you on that one. But because I maybe take 1 international trip a year at most, that wouldn't be too much of an issue for me.

Have heard of that but I don't think its the same as a TOD. DL's larger cabins really do help with the upgrades, even if they do hold back for awhile on the FCM routes.

jlemon

The new management at UA has spoken and the message is quite clear, I think....and I also think they did this on purpose.

Top elites at the new UA will no longer have their collective rear ends repeatedly smooched on an ongoing basis from here on out....those days are now over.

I know that if I were currently a top elite at UA, I'd be seething.....as many on this thread most obviously are.

But I'm not. I had Plat Elite status on CO for many years but that's over now. A couple of months ago I made a decision. And I'm now flying on all three carriers that serve LFT (plus a couple of more that serve MSY when I have time for the two hour drive over there on I-10) and I'm looking for the best deals I can get with an eye to still flying in the front cabin where possible. Lord knows I have enough miles via several different carriers to last me for quite some time......

And next weekend we shall be on AA.....and we are already confirmed in F.

cerealmarketer

As always Channa, TELLING IT LIKE IT IS.

This is all about marginal cost. And in a low margin business, small marginal cost per person is meaningful.

But also to consider...

- Legacy UA did what it could against more competitive carriers, with more of its capacity on trunk routes competing against flag carriers. Thus, a need to be more generous with benefits for frequent global travelers
- Legacy CO built its business on avoiding direct competition when possible. Flying nonstop to places others wouldn't. That was the case in IAH, EWR domestically...and out of EWR on the thin long international routes.

The latter is the better business, less so for the customer, but absent the Dreamliner -- had fewer places for expansion. This is why they are so excited about the Dreamliner -- a lot more long thin routes with no competition.

I am okay with a somewhat less generous elite program with most of the 'take' being $100-$200 upgrades on domestic flights.

They did a review and somehow didn't come to Delta's conclusion which (hopefully not) may be a fixed value per mile model.

United seems to be maintaining the currency value of what's earned via the profitable credit card, other channels by controlling the supply earned from low incremental margin flyers, and I think we can have a deal here.

I won't put a dime onto a Skymiles credit card because of the inflation of that program. And Chase makes out like a bandit.

Let's hope the calculus of today's United remains, because what is rumored on the Delta side is frightening.

And as much as AA is a nice haven now, how many people are jumping to US Airways?

penner42

That makes even less sense. The airline only gets a portion of the annual fee... so less than $400. In exchange for that, they get a full club membership and two free checked bags every time they fly. So their less than $400 is worth more than my $1500? Plus the free drinks and snacks and wifi they get in the clubs, that a silver gets none of.

I realize most of this thread is about higher level elites, but silvers were hardly "over entitled" before, and still had benefits reduced.

LarkSFO

Per Rainey's presentation and comments:

- United wants to keep and attract more High Value Flyers.

- But feels that Elites were 'over-entitled, if you will'. (I do like the fact that he used the past tense. As in, were over-entitled, but we have put an end to that.)

I think this is an important distinction that we all need to understand:

Elite Flyer does not necessarily equal High Value Flyer.

I am 1K, not the cheap way, and feel like my business should be valued by United. But, for 'a financial guy, not an airline guy' like Rainey, here is what he sees:

- As a 1K, I receive free domestic upgrades. A financial guy like Rainey looks at this and says: even if I sell that seat for $79, look at the bottom line impact this will have across my entire fleet and all the flights we have! A High Value Flyer will buy this F seat for some amount of money which drops straight to the bottom line. An Elite just feels like they are entitled to it...

- As a 1K, I receive a generous baggage allowance. A financial guy looks at this and says: Look at all those bags traveling for free. How do we monetize more bags and increase our ancillary fees? A High Value Flyer pays $200 additional to check their family's bags on their infrequent trips. An elite just feels like they are entitled to it.

- I have a priority check in line and priority security available to me. A High Value Flyer will pay extra per trip for Premium Access. An Elite? Entitled to it.

- I am allowed to select an Economy Plus seat when I book a flight. A financial guy looks at this and says: With my new dynamic pricing software, I should be able to extract a significant amount of additional revenue out of E+. A High Value Flyer is the one who spends $50 or $150 to buy an E+ seat. An Elite just feels like they are entitled to it.

I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

I am an Elite. My Elite status in many cases prevents United from monetizing the things that they have unbudled and are now selling a la carte. I am not a High Value Flyer, rather, I am 'over-entitled, if you will'.

With their capacity reductions and industry consolidation, perhaps the new UA leadership is right and this 'new normal' is the best way to focus on 'creating economic value'.

Time will tell.

Lark

penner42

I would respond to him by saying the elite doesn't think they're entitled to it... they believe, and rightfully so, that they've earned it with their loyalty. That is the whole point of a loyalty program. On top of that, it would take almost 5700 $79 upgrades to recoup the $450k+ loss we've seen just TWO flyers post about in other threads here. I'm sure there are many more leaving than just those two.

Renard

The only surprise to me about any of is this is that people are actually surprised by the CFO's comments. What about ""WE DONT CARE"" don't we understand?