United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
May 19, 2012, 4:59 pm
#166
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I'd personally be fine if it were a spend-based system, but one in which it took into account my annual spend and provided me benefits commensurate with that spend on every flight.
The way it's currently set up is spend-based - but, unfortunately, spend per flight. Good for the times when I fly Y/B/M, not so good for the other times when I get to plan a little in advance.
The way it's currently set up is spend-based - but, unfortunately, spend per flight. Good for the times when I fly Y/B/M, not so good for the other times when I get to plan a little in advance.
May 19, 2012, 5:04 pm
#167
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May 19, 2012, 5:12 pm
#168
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I'll give you an example. In 2011 I had no status with PMCO. Yet I flew with them on 16 segments (not enough for OP Silver), and yet only registered 7,088 miles.
All my miles were EWR-YQB exclusvely.
On some of those trips, I was forced to buy the full-fare Y on this short trip.
How much does that cost? $1,799! That's $2/mile in an ERJ-145.
At that cost, EWR-HKG would have cost me $32,000. And on my flight I had one glass of soda 80% filled with ice, no food, no IFE, nuthin'.
Now that's a "high-value" flyer, in other words, one who pays a lot for very little in return...
And what makes me especially valuable is that I didn't qualify for any bottom-line-depleting elite perks...
May 19, 2012, 5:17 pm
#169
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I'm predicting that this will become one of the most important threads on this forum this year. As I stated earlier, I personally feel that it speaks volumes about the COdbaUA mindset. All elites should be outraged by this statement, and, excepting locations with no other alternative, I strongly suggest that people vote with their feet and move their business from UA. This type of behavior should not be tolerated.
may be an overstatement but with the CFO's talk,
with UA Insider's explanation of upgrades, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590619-post1532.html
the discussion chinatradermr had with Senior VP of Sales, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18585613-post236.html
the desired relationship of the new UA with it customers and elites is becoming clear.
While there had been much speculation, these instance are all painting a much clear situation -- a Brave New World.
with UA Insider's explanation of upgrades, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590619-post1532.html
the discussion chinatradermr had with Senior VP of Sales, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18585613-post236.html
the desired relationship of the new UA with it customers and elites is becoming clear.
While there had been much speculation, these instance are all painting a much clear situation -- a Brave New World.
May 19, 2012, 5:18 pm
#170
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Mr. Rainey's name and comments will be remembered by us 'over-entitled' elites and that he is the straw that broke the camel's back for many.
May 19, 2012, 5:20 pm
#171
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Or perhaps a New world Order?
Certainly these comments seem consistent with the discussion chinatrademr had with the UA sales manager.
Originally Posted by goalie
I'm predicting that this will become one of the most important threads on this forum this year. As I stated earlier, I personally feel that it speaks volumes about the COdbaUA mindset. All elites should be outraged by this statement, and, excepting locations with no other alternative, I strongly suggest that people vote with their feet and move their business from UA. This type of behavior should not be tolerated.
may be an overstatement but with the CFO's talk,
with UA Insider's explanation of upgrades, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590619-post1532.html
the discussion chinatradermr had with Senior VP of Sales, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18585613-post236.html
the desired relationship of the new UA with it customers and elites is becoming clear.
While there had been much speculation, these instance are all painting a much clear situation -- a Brave New World.
with UA Insider's explanation of upgrades, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18590619-post1532.html
the discussion chinatradermr had with Senior VP of Sales, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/18585613-post236.html
the desired relationship of the new UA with it customers and elites is becoming clear.
While there had been much speculation, these instance are all painting a much clear situation -- a Brave New World.
May 19, 2012, 5:20 pm
#172
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The new UA is happy with the ability to sell add ons or ToDs through SHARES. UA Elites (P.S. its Premier's now Rainey) are "Over Entitled" to good IRROPS.
The list goes on, and I can hardly believe than an exec would actually say someting so anti-customer.
UA certainly feels "Over Entitled" to the Houston market, and to travel by those in its fortress hubs. Hopefully things like AA's status match, and WN's HOU international expansion give them a much needed dose of reality.
The list goes on, and I can hardly believe than an exec would actually say someting so anti-customer.
UA certainly feels "Over Entitled" to the Houston market, and to travel by those in its fortress hubs. Hopefully things like AA's status match, and WN's HOU international expansion give them a much needed dose of reality.
May 19, 2012, 5:22 pm
#173
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Sure.
I'll give you an example. In 2011 I had no status with PMCO. Yet I flew with them on 16 segments (not enough for OP Silver), and yet only registered 7,088 miles.
All my miles were EWR-YQB exclusvely.
On some of those trips, I was forced to buy the full-fare Y on this short trip.
How much does that cost? $1,799! That's $2/mile in an ERJ-145.
At that cost, EWR-HKG would have cost me $32,000. And on my flight I had one glass of soda 80% filled with ice, no food, no IFE, nuthin'.
Now that's a "high-value" flyer, in other words, one who pays a lot for very little in return...
And what makes me especially valuable is that I didn't qualify for any bottom-line-depleting elite perks...
I'll give you an example. In 2011 I had no status with PMCO. Yet I flew with them on 16 segments (not enough for OP Silver), and yet only registered 7,088 miles.
All my miles were EWR-YQB exclusvely.
On some of those trips, I was forced to buy the full-fare Y on this short trip.
How much does that cost? $1,799! That's $2/mile in an ERJ-145.
At that cost, EWR-HKG would have cost me $32,000. And on my flight I had one glass of soda 80% filled with ice, no food, no IFE, nuthin'.
Now that's a "high-value" flyer, in other words, one who pays a lot for very little in return...
And what makes me especially valuable is that I didn't qualify for any bottom-line-depleting elite perks...
Without competition, there's no reason for an FF program to exist. No reason to go above & beyond. Never mind that this might leave the hostage passenger with a bad taste in his or her mouth for that airline when it comes time to fly other routes... airlines don't seem to think that way.
We had all better hope that United faces some very strong competition down the road, and not a scenario where airports and regions are divied up for fortresses with one alliance or another. Otherwise, what we see here will spread elsewhere.
Last edited by Mike Jacoubowsky; May 19, 2012 at 5:33 pm
May 19, 2012, 5:26 pm
#174
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I think COdbaUA seriously underestimates the negative value of hate. This fool Rainey has gotten pretty far in his career without learning when to STFU.
What a bozo.
What a bozo.
May 19, 2012, 5:31 pm
#175
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But you were also a hostage or captive flyer. You would not have spent so much $$$ had there been lower cost alternatives. As long as you've got a hostage situation, there's no need to reward the flyer.
Without competition, there's no reason for an FF program to exist. No reason to go above & beyond. Never mind that this might leave the hostage passenger with a bad taste in his or her mouth for that airline when it comes time to fly other routes... airlines don't seem to think that way.
Without competition, there's no reason for an FF program to exist. No reason to go above & beyond. Never mind that this might leave the hostage passenger with a bad taste in his or her mouth for that airline when it comes time to fly other routes... airlines don't seem to think that way.
In those markets, UA has the market fairly well cornered (to different degrees, of course).
Next down on the list is EWR (where the people living in NJ have a tough time getting to LGA or JFK) and the hublet at CLE, where the total passenger volume is small, but UA owns the town.
The only place UA truly faces any serious competition is in its putative hometown of Chicago, where AA is still a mjor player at ORD.
I have read numerous posts on this forum about unhappy customers at SFO desperately looking for a convenient alternative and not finding one...
May 19, 2012, 5:33 pm
#176
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Deceptive, Ignorant, Liars, Incompetent and Conniving. Sounds like Lawyer tactics to me. What a way to run a business. They won't last long at the helm. They will last longer than I will as a customer.
For as much as we hear about SHARES coming from their mouths, only proves how hard they are trying to defend their indefensible position. Won't work.
Q2 results should be interesting. If a miss, the heat gets turned up. If on track, none of what we have to say matters. Which one will it be?
For as much as we hear about SHARES coming from their mouths, only proves how hard they are trying to defend their indefensible position. Won't work.
Q2 results should be interesting. If a miss, the heat gets turned up. If on track, none of what we have to say matters. Which one will it be?
May 19, 2012, 5:35 pm
#177
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Had they been running 60% load factors like they were 20+ years ago, then sure, they'd want both that Elite and non-Elite customer, as there's room for more. But now with ~85%+ LFs they are choosing to be selective in which customers they want to fly around.
The fact that so many have acknowledged moving to AA and AA has even hinted at some numbers of UA 1Ks that have moved over may actually make UA happy, as that means UA may now have fewer Elites who will tie up inventory with costly mileage bonuses and without ancillary upsells.
Bottom line, it seems the more you fly, the less UA wants you as a customer. And this comment was not a faux-pas by the new CFO, rather it was a calculated statement to enrage the very customers who they are deliberately trying to drive away.
May 19, 2012, 5:35 pm
#178
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I have had it - I have never seen a corporation run so foolishly. From Customer Insight Directors who have been silenced through to a CFO who slanders the top tier clients, to a CEO who does not respond to emails - what is going on at this airline?
I am more than happy to just buy PE or J on Virgin and I will be done with this mob. No more worries about upgrades and no more worries about my tens of thousands of revenue heading their way every year.
Do we have any other examples around the world where airlines are dumping elite flyers like this? Over at Virgin Australia I get incredible service, surprise upgrades, and it is always a joy to fly. At UA I get phone agents who take 2 hrs and quote a $2,000 fee to change a flexible B fare, an upgrade system that is a worse bet than the lottery, and inflight service that has been brought back to the bare basics (not the fault of many of the UA FAs who still do an outstanding job with limited resources).
I know of no company in any industry who so blatantly throws their top tier clients in the rubbish bin. This is insane!
I am more than happy to just buy PE or J on Virgin and I will be done with this mob. No more worries about upgrades and no more worries about my tens of thousands of revenue heading their way every year.
Do we have any other examples around the world where airlines are dumping elite flyers like this? Over at Virgin Australia I get incredible service, surprise upgrades, and it is always a joy to fly. At UA I get phone agents who take 2 hrs and quote a $2,000 fee to change a flexible B fare, an upgrade system that is a worse bet than the lottery, and inflight service that has been brought back to the bare basics (not the fault of many of the UA FAs who still do an outstanding job with limited resources).
I know of no company in any industry who so blatantly throws their top tier clients in the rubbish bin. This is insane!
May 19, 2012, 5:38 pm
#179
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UA is the only airline with a sizable hub at SFO (Virgin is headquartered here, but just a few destinations). That wouldn't be much different than AA flyers looking for alternatives at DFW. UA doesn't provide a lot of service there. If convenience is your highest priority, and nonstop flights fall in that parameter, there isn't anyone at SFO that can compete against UA on that scale. I notice a lot of FTers are willing to take those AA connections now and quite a few I personally know in the Bay Area have done AA status matches.
May 19, 2012, 5:38 pm
#180
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I agree that this is likely their mindset. They think that with their route network, and with load factors as high as there are, there is only so much room on the plane. And if an Elite doesn't buy that seat, someone else will, so they'd much rather sell it to someone else who may also buy things that Elite would not (e.g., bag fees and E+ or upgrades because Elites get them free, club access that already comes with your status/int'l ticket, etc.), and doesn't cost them as much in terms of bonus miles or other utilized services (e.g., drinks or shortbread cookies at the club).
Had they been running 60% load factors like they were 20+ years ago, then sure, they'd want both that Elite and non-Elite customer, as there's room for more. But now with ~85%+ LFs they are choosing to be selective in which customers they want to fly around.
The fact that so many have acknowledged moving to AA and AA has even hinted at some numbers of UA 1Ks that have moved over may actually make UA happy, as that means UA may now have fewer Elites who will tie up inventory with costly mileage bonuses and without ancillary upsells.
Bottom line, it seems the more you fly, the less UA wants you as a customer. And this comment was not a faux-pas by the new CFO, rather it was a calculated statement to enrage the very customers who they are deliberately trying to drive away.
Had they been running 60% load factors like they were 20+ years ago, then sure, they'd want both that Elite and non-Elite customer, as there's room for more. But now with ~85%+ LFs they are choosing to be selective in which customers they want to fly around.
The fact that so many have acknowledged moving to AA and AA has even hinted at some numbers of UA 1Ks that have moved over may actually make UA happy, as that means UA may now have fewer Elites who will tie up inventory with costly mileage bonuses and without ancillary upsells.
Bottom line, it seems the more you fly, the less UA wants you as a customer. And this comment was not a faux-pas by the new CFO, rather it was a calculated statement to enrage the very customers who they are deliberately trying to drive away.