United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".
#226
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
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Posts: 6,638
#227
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Well put. SFO isn't exactly one of these mega hubs with tons of frequencies where UA's schedule is so great you can't think of using anyone else. Even on some the hub flights where they have great frequency (e.g., ORD, LAX, EWR/JFK), there are competitors that have reasonable frequency as well (AA for ORD, AA/DL for LAX, AA/DL for JFK).
In addition to some of the flights where UA has minimal frequency out of SFO (e.g., MCO, MSY, AUS/SAT, PHL, MSP), there are also major markets where UA has absolutely no service (e.g., ATL, MIA, DTW). And for those that do, they're often a more convenient alternative anyway (e.g., DL has a half dozen or so to MSP, whereas UA has 1; AA has 10x to DFW, UA has 4, 2 of which are on Express).
#228
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
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In fact, I only did it once.
On the other 7 round trips, if I recall correctly, I paid about $585.
So the total expense on the year was about $5,800.
That's much less than $14k, but still a lot of money to spend to get nowhere near elite status.
I remember, once on the CO forum, there were a number of CO Plats who revealed they had achieved that status spending less than $2,500 (using double EQM in effect that year).
Still, even at a yearly spend of only about $5,800 I'm still UaCo's ideal customer. I spend a lot of money and get very little in return for it.
#230
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Houston, TX USA
Programs: UA - GS/1MM, Marriott- PT, SPG-Gold/Fairmont Presidents
Posts: 204
Not True
PMCO valued its flyers. The new United or better called Untied is neither PMCO or PMUA. Everyone is unhappy with what Mr Tilton and Mr Smisek have created. Only us the customer through public forums and yelp, flyer talk and trip adviser can we
Influence change. This cannot happen if we keep arguing over PMCO or PMUA. It is time to be aligned.
Influence change. This cannot happen if we keep arguing over PMCO or PMUA. It is time to be aligned.
#231
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,658
All I can say is WOW!
Frequent Flyer programs are Equal Opportunity.
Anyone can buy published fares, fly, and earn the published benefits.
If a 2 times a year business traveler wants to fly F then he should buy it. A Premier Silver (give away status for business travelers) can get instant F by buying a full Y fare, if company requires Y travel. He didn't want it when he bought the ticket - they why give him a TOD - that's my beef.
Yes, elites are entitled - anyone can be an Elite, buy the published fares. UA sets the fares, the customer does not.
I will still fly UA when it makes sense, but for now I am a very happy AA EXP - with more options out of DCA. If US and AA combine then it is slam dunk - AA/US would be over 60% of DCA.
Typing away on gogo and just had a nice dinner in F in a more comfortable F seat then legacy CO F seat. Already at $4K domestic spend on AA for month of May. This would otherwise have been UA.
On AA I am over 95% upgrades. AA even has empty seats in F. On my dinner flight (now) - even AA off duty crew is sitting in F.
UA needs to make a profit - all businesses do - but they should not tick off their frequent flyers. UA could cancel Mileageplus, and then would likely go out of business.
Frequent Flyer programs are Equal Opportunity.
Anyone can buy published fares, fly, and earn the published benefits.
If a 2 times a year business traveler wants to fly F then he should buy it. A Premier Silver (give away status for business travelers) can get instant F by buying a full Y fare, if company requires Y travel. He didn't want it when he bought the ticket - they why give him a TOD - that's my beef.
Yes, elites are entitled - anyone can be an Elite, buy the published fares. UA sets the fares, the customer does not.
I will still fly UA when it makes sense, but for now I am a very happy AA EXP - with more options out of DCA. If US and AA combine then it is slam dunk - AA/US would be over 60% of DCA.
Typing away on gogo and just had a nice dinner in F in a more comfortable F seat then legacy CO F seat. Already at $4K domestic spend on AA for month of May. This would otherwise have been UA.
On AA I am over 95% upgrades. AA even has empty seats in F. On my dinner flight (now) - even AA off duty crew is sitting in F.
UA needs to make a profit - all businesses do - but they should not tick off their frequent flyers. UA could cancel Mileageplus, and then would likely go out of business.
Last edited by cova; May 19, 2012 at 8:30 pm
#232
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,796
It is nice that he admits they reduced the level of service, something that is obvious to most.
#234
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 721
"We have certain groups in this (Mileage Plus) program that were over entitled..." according to United's CFO John Rainey, as per his presentation at the BofA Transportation Conference held on May 17th. The entire webcast is available on United's investor relations website, and he makes the comment 11- 12 minutes into the presentation. Since the CFO is a PMCO guy, I imagine he is referring to PMUA fliers. Mr. Rainey also raves about Shares.
So, I guess we have the answer to all of the complaints enumerated by Premiers, 1Ks, GS, MM, etc. We were simply over entitled, not loyal!! Our new airline.
So, I guess we have the answer to all of the complaints enumerated by Premiers, 1Ks, GS, MM, etc. We were simply over entitled, not loyal!! Our new airline.
#235
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Central US
Programs: UA Lifetime GS, AA EXP 1 MM, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG Plat, Hyatt Gold, Hertz 5Star PC
Posts: 181
The loudest, most effective voice is money.
I took my business away from United and gave it to American. Each have their own problems, but as a lifetime elite on UA who will fly once every 18 months just to preserve my miles, I could care less about them. Between the horrendous way they treated customers during the system integration and the constant problems, I found that American was more than happy to take my UA status and convert it to their program. I will qualify as a PLT to EXP with them this year. Their upgrades are different, but since UA has screwed up the automatic upgrades, same diff.
When I want to fly domestically, I can afford a first class ticket and will buy one of my own volition.
I honestly don't care what UA does to congratulate itself. It has not earned my travel money (whether personal or corporate) since the merger. Rainey's idiotic statement just proves out what they really think of their most loyal customers. Funny how American has treated me wonderfully, where UA could not be bothered to even answer their own damned phones. Speaks volumes.
I took my business away from United and gave it to American. Each have their own problems, but as a lifetime elite on UA who will fly once every 18 months just to preserve my miles, I could care less about them. Between the horrendous way they treated customers during the system integration and the constant problems, I found that American was more than happy to take my UA status and convert it to their program. I will qualify as a PLT to EXP with them this year. Their upgrades are different, but since UA has screwed up the automatic upgrades, same diff.
When I want to fly domestically, I can afford a first class ticket and will buy one of my own volition.
I honestly don't care what UA does to congratulate itself. It has not earned my travel money (whether personal or corporate) since the merger. Rainey's idiotic statement just proves out what they really think of their most loyal customers. Funny how American has treated me wonderfully, where UA could not be bothered to even answer their own damned phones. Speaks volumes.
#237
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
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Posts: 66,858
I find the dynamic pricing comment as the scariest statement / idea in this talk.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 19, 2012 at 8:57 pm Reason: dynamic pricing comment
#238
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Financial suicide
Mr. Rainey has reconfirmed what many of us already knew, namely, the new UA management does not value customer loyalty and they don't seem concerned that former loyal customers are leaving UA. That is a recipe for financial disaster.
I cannot help but wonder what the minority stockholders of UA feel about what the new UA management is doing to a former great airline.
When the cash accounts at UA run dry, the next stop is bankruptcy.
This all could have been avoided had the new management not been so obtuse.
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#239
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: No longer loyal "over-entitled" 1K
Posts: 3,822
What UA wants to emulate is SQ.
Not gonna happen.
I've now migrated to AA and DL through AS program which has a whole lot more presence in NYC market for domestic, and my occasional int'l C ticket to China and SE Asia now goes to SQ, CX, NH and OZ.
Not gonna happen.
I've now migrated to AA and DL through AS program which has a whole lot more presence in NYC market for domestic, and my occasional int'l C ticket to China and SE Asia now goes to SQ, CX, NH and OZ.
#240
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Pikes Peak COS
Programs: 3 Month Delta Plat, UA PP 2.4mm, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HH Lifetime Diamond, National EE
Posts: 426
Not sure what to do. I split my hotel nights in four programs, works as well as it needs to. As far as UA goes, since about 6 weeks ago, my upgrades have been clearing regularly, most at 96 hours. I value that and my treatment during irrops the most (but haven't had to use that since the merger). However so much of my time anymore is spent in a *!@#&! sardine can, I mean RJ.
I'm not sure what to make of Rainey's statements either. Could be he was talking about lower tiers of the program. I'm wondering if everyone jumping to AA will have an effect on clearing upgrades on UA, or even upgrades on AA. Will it really make a dent in either? Not sure.
I do believe in karma though, and this Rainey saying this on the same day I receive my AA status match surely is karma.....
So to Mr Rainey and Mr Smisek, while I certainly respect your decision to make decisions that are best for your company, what is best for me is to look at you in the eye, with a smile and a far off gaze that says I've done this more than I care to do, and say....
"Buh Bye"
I'm not sure what to make of Rainey's statements either. Could be he was talking about lower tiers of the program. I'm wondering if everyone jumping to AA will have an effect on clearing upgrades on UA, or even upgrades on AA. Will it really make a dent in either? Not sure.
I do believe in karma though, and this Rainey saying this on the same day I receive my AA status match surely is karma.....
So to Mr Rainey and Mr Smisek, while I certainly respect your decision to make decisions that are best for your company, what is best for me is to look at you in the eye, with a smile and a far off gaze that says I've done this more than I care to do, and say....
"Buh Bye"