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enviroian Feb 15, 2021 8:16 am


Originally Posted by Internaut (Post 33038501)
I've no idea which group I'm actually in. I'm 50 and have Asthma (or COPD as they seem to call it now)

I'm 52 with Asthma but not COPD (two different things). Those with COPD are in group 1C here in the States but those with just asthma like me drop to group 2.

corporate-wage-slave Feb 15, 2021 8:23 am


Originally Posted by Internaut (Post 33038501)
I've no idea which group I'm actually in. I'm 50 and have Asthma (or COPD as they seem to call it now) which, up until around 10 years ago wasn't at all well controlled (think blue inhaler, constantly). Then the practice nurse changed the maintenance inhaler from the old brown one (Becotide, I think) to Symbicort. Fast forward ten years and I have no idea if my Asthma is classed as severe. What I can say is I take two doses of Symbicort (bought down four a few years back) per day and go, manage a total of ten miles brisk walking, most days, and can go months without needing a reliever. Either way, it looks like the first step to giving me my wings back will be before the end of April. Just curious to know what the thinking is.

The wording for this is


Originally Posted by The Green Book Chapter 14a
Individuals with a severe lung condition, including those with asthma that requires continuous or repeated use of systemic steroids or with previous exacerbations requiring hospital admission, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) including chronic bronchitis and emphysema; bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis, interstitial lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis and bronchopulmonary dysplasia (BPD).

I think you can look at this from several perspectives, one obviously is to look at the above wording and apply it strictly. If you are twice a day, that seems "continuous" to me, but I'm not a clinician (as I'm frequently reminded).

Another perspective is to say that someone aged say 30 in good health and with no history of any trigger factor won't be a priority if vaccines are in short supply. But as soon as triggers get added, in my view we vaccinate sooner rather than later. And if in doubt we vaccinate and then ask questions. We aren't so short of vaccines that we need to ration them out harshly. However you would need your GP, or I fear a GP's administrator, to share my views and put you on a list, and at least some GPs will be quite strict about this, unfortunately.

13901 Feb 15, 2021 9:03 am

Now schools aren't a vector for transmission:


Covid: 'No evidence' schools spread lots of coronavirus


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56072460

PxC Feb 15, 2021 11:01 am

In todays briefing, the wording from the NHS guy was almost giving an impression that they've been holding a bunch of vaccines back for the second doses and there will be a doubling up next month. On the other hand he said the end of April was the target based on expected supply, suggesting a drop. Sturgeon also said there would be a significant increase in supply during March. Am I wide of the mark here, it was a little unclear?

paulaf Feb 15, 2021 11:41 am


Originally Posted by PxC (Post 33038959)
In todays briefing, the wording from the NHS guy was almost giving an impression that they've been holding a bunch of vaccines back for the second doses and there will be a doubling up next month. On the other hand he said the end of April was the target based on expected supply, suggesting a drop. Sturgeon also said there would be a significant increase in supply during March. Am I wide of the mark here, it was a little unclear?

I didn't hear it but I've lifted this from the Daily Mail summary:"Sir Simon told a Downing Street press conference: 'As well as opening up the invitations to more than 14 million new people in England - in the groups that we're now talking about - we've also got the second doses to administer for those who have had their first dose.

'And when we look at the likely vaccine supply that we will have available to us between now and the end of April, that appears to be what we can do.

'If supply increases then we think we can go faster. But that at the moment represents still a doubling of the number of vaccines delivered over the next 10 or 11 weeks compared to those that have been delivered over the last 10 weeks."

I think he's mistaking us for a bit stupid, we know more jabs have to be done in the next 10 weeks than the first 10 weeks but the run rate now is what is important not what we achieved say in December as we've speeded up since then. I don't understand his phrase of doubling unless he means we will have done 32m against the 15m to today? Our calculations also tell us there are only 1.6m 2nd doses due in March/early April so that's not a massive liability. So maybe he knows something about a supply problem we don't?

antichef Feb 15, 2021 12:04 pm

CWS, can I just comment that your knowledge and informed assistance on COVID matters for us all here matches - if not exceeds - your information on BA travel matters that we have come to rely on for the last few years!

Thank you, sir. Well done.

HB7 Feb 15, 2021 12:27 pm

All signs point to a supply issue. Because the next lot of priority groups should be able to be done within the next 5 - 6 weeks before second doses need to be given out, according to their 12-week between doses strategy.

corporate-wage-slave Feb 15, 2021 12:38 pm


Originally Posted by paulaf (Post 33039057)
I think he's mistaking us for a bit stupid, we know more jabs have to be done in the next 10 weeks than the first 10 weeks but the run rate now is what is important not what we achieved say in December as we've speeded up since then. I don't understand his phrase of doubling unless he means we will have done 32m against the 15m to today? Our calculations also tell us there are only 1.6m 2nd doses due in March/early April so that's not a massive liability. So maybe he knows something about a supply problem we don't?

Doubling up means, I believe, that there are the original 15 million who will need their 2nd jabs; plus the 17 million of the remaining 50 year olds (Groups 5 to 9) including the "underlyings", plus perhaps some second jabs from the 17 million, plus those in Groups 1 to 4 who for whatever reason have not been vaccinated. Now clearly this can be deconstructed by the fact that we are looking at a 10 week period rather than a 12 week period. People I vaccinated on Thursday (12 February) were given today their 2nd appointment dates of 29 April, which is just under 11 weeks.

But I go back to my earlier point, you can set the maximum speed at say 600k a dat and easily get it all done by early April, or you put some contingency in there, as happened for the 15 February date. Early April is bound to fail, end of April is realistic.

corporate-wage-slave Feb 15, 2021 12:48 pm


Originally Posted by antichef (Post 33039102)
CWS, can I just comment that your knowledge and informed assistance on COVID matters for us all here matches - if not exceeds - your information on BA travel matters that we have come to rely on for the last few years!

I vaguely feel I have to do the vaccinations, and get that done, before I can go back properly to travelling/BA. But it is quite enjoyable, even if 2 legged creatures need a lot more time than those with 4 legs. Everyone who turns up is incredibly grateful and prepared to go through considerable effort to get to the centres (we had a fair bit of snow here last week) but as I keep saying, the people who need gratitude are those prepared to roll up their sleeves and get the jab. All this NHS love is great but we simply need everyone vaccinated ASAP.

[And for anyone getting injected soon: it's really helpful if you can wear something with short sleeves!]

paulaf Feb 15, 2021 12:58 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 33039208)
[And for anyone getting injected soon: it's really helpful if you can wear something with short sleeves!]

In snow lol ? Buy yes hopefully it will be warmer in April when I get done.

paulaf Feb 15, 2021 1:32 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 33039187)
Doubling up means, I believe, that there are the original 15 million who will need their 2nd jabs; plus the 17 million of the remaining 50 year olds (Groups 5 to 9) including the "underlyings", plus perhaps some second jabs from the 17 million, plus those in Groups 1 to 4 who for whatever reason have not been vaccinated. Now clearly this can be deconstructed by the fact that we are looking at a 10 week period rather than a 12 week period. People I vaccinated on Thursday (12 February) were given today their 2nd appointment dates of 29 April, which is just under 11 weeks.

But I go back to my earlier point, you can set the maximum speed at say 600k a dat and easily get it all done by early April, or you put some contingency in there, as happened for the 15 February date. Early April is bound to fail, end of April is realistic.

If they are bringing the 2nd dose date forward slightly by 2 weeks they must be confident of supply. Also maybe they want the extra protection. Maybe also it will protect us from any EU demands to give them our surplus?

Internaut Feb 15, 2021 5:07 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 33038567)
The wording for this is



I think you can look at this from several perspectives, one obviously is to look at the above wording and apply it strictly. If you are twice a day, that seems "continuous" to me, but I'm not a clinician (as I'm frequently reminded).

Another perspective is to say that someone aged say 30 in good health and with no history of any trigger factor won't be a priority if vaccines are in short supply. But as soon as triggers get added, in my view we vaccinate sooner rather than later. And if in doubt we vaccinate and then ask questions. We aren't so short of vaccines that we need to ration them out harshly. However you would need your GP, or I fear a GP's administrator, to share my views and put you on a list, and at least some GPs will be quite strict about this, unfortunately.

I think we might have a more definite answer. Tonight Sky News interviewed a 20 year old asthmatic who was disappointed to be delayed by a last minute change of rules. I can understand the fear. If you have asthma or COPD you have some insight into what it’s like to have breathing difficulty. You also know how to look after yourself... Elsewhere I’ve read asthmatics are greatly under represented in deaths and hospitalisations, with an ongoing study into budesonide (SP? ) as a COVID therapy. It seems what protects us from our asthma or/and COPD may also stymy the worst effects of COVID.

In other news, this is a worrying time for me and everyone I work with. A key member of the team is in bed and very poorly. This is very real and I’m not the least bit sympathetic towards the deniers and those MPs who seem doomed to repeatedly slamming themselves into the same glass door.

ahmetdouas Feb 16, 2021 5:27 am

10 years in jail for not declaring Red List was a ridiculous bluff as you said [MENTION=566057]KARFA[/MENTION].
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...f36f5aed9e.png

stut Feb 16, 2021 5:56 am


Originally Posted by ahmetdouas (Post 33040523)
10 years in jail for not declaring Red List was a ridiculous bluff as you said [MENTION=566057]KARFA[/MENTION].

As pointed out by Simon Evans on the News Quiz - when you get a hugely disproportionate sentence, it's usually a tacit acknowledgement that the law is practically unenforceable.

(Although this case slightly disproves that...)

ahmetdouas Feb 16, 2021 6:33 am


Originally Posted by stut (Post 33040550)
As pointed out by Simon Evans on the News Quiz - when you get a hugely disproportionate sentence, it's usually a tacit acknowledgement that the law is practically unenforceable.

(Although this case slightly disproves that...)

We all know that the modus operandi of many countries in COVID for enforcement is to fine its citizens to the hilt, I guess to try and balance the books and discourage rule-breakers. It does become counterproductive though at some point.

Interesting that the court rules against the Dutch curfew and asked them to remove it immediately, at least the law is not all for governments doing as they please it seems!


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