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Originally Posted by flashware
(Post 33280927)
Watch this space also, there may be an amendment to the SI coming that will force all people coming from Amber list countries to pay for day 2 and 8 tests, even if they're leaving prior to the day 8 tests. Too many people arriving saying they're leaving before day 8 and hence only booked a day 2 test when that's not quite true. YMMV and let's see if it does come into play, as it's ridiculous and putting things back where they were originally.
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Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
(Post 33281293)
Whilst the absolute number remains small, given the previous trajectory I’m not sure today’s figures could be seen as ‘good’. However, this is only one day, we have seen this recently and it hasn’t led to a continuing rise, so let’s hope this is merely a blip which is counteracted by more people getting immunity by vaccination.
I am also 99% certain we are not yet seeing the start of a much bigger wave caused by increased transmissibility of the B.1.617.2 variant, shown as the red line in the chart. If this were the case I would expect to see first a surge in cases (mostly among young people, essential workers), in the same way as we saw last year for the Kent variant. |
Those charts are fairly scary. :(
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Originally Posted by Dan1113
(Post 33282341)
Those charts are fairly scary. :(
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Originally Posted by 8420PR
(Post 33282289)
Hospitalisations were always expected to increase with the reduction in restrictions in May and June - see the grey line in the chart below:
I am also 99% certain we are not yet seeing the start of a much bigger wave caused by increased transmissibility of the B.1.617.2 variant, shown as the red line in the chart. If this were the case I would expect to see first a surge in cases (mostly among young people, essential workers), in the same way as we saw last year for the Kent variant. The media/scientists love their doom and gloom graphs and models, remember the '3000 deaths a day' one? You have 70% of the population with antibodies, higher in the higher age groups, I don't think there are enough uninfected ppl left to fill the hospitals! Seriously, that graph is clearly made up by someone who is upset we are unlocking at all given the amount they have cooked the books, are you seriously telling me that in the middle of summer the issue will be twice as bad as the winter even with all the vaccines? That's insane. And all this scaremongering about supermutants, well none of them have escaped vaccines. The virus will get more transmissible as it continues to die out. And who are essential workers by the way? Many many people are back to work now, at this rate everyone will be called an essential worker! |
Originally Posted by Dan1113
(Post 33282341)
Those charts are fairly scary. :(
SAGE are using multiple models from different sources and transparently publishing them - hugely to their credit. Me including just one chart from one model without any explanation or assumptions is as bad as some of the poorest journalists. Full details on each model are here: https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...tings-may-2021 |
Originally Posted by NWIFlyer
(Post 33281293)
Whilst the absolute number remains small, given the previous trajectory I’m not sure today’s figures could be seen as ‘good’. However, this is only one day, we have seen this recently and it hasn’t led to a continuing rise, so let’s hope this is merely a blip which is counteracted by more people getting immunity by vaccination.
previous trajectories are irrelevant now, you would have already seen a large increase if there was no immunity in genpop. HMG even said it, higher cases alone are to be expected. |
Here is a better chart to make the point - as it shows the expected hospitalizations after step 3 and step 4 of the reopening, without any estimates for VOC's.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...dfe2f8ae9f.jpg The yellow line is the projected COVID19 hospital bed occupancy after wave 3 reopenings and the blue line is after wave 4 reopenings. The shaded area shows show 95% credible intervals, again with yellow after wave 3 and blue after wave 4. Source: https://assets.publishing.service.go...own_Step_3.pdf The main point is we are expecting an increase in cases, hospitalisations and deaths, so it shouldn't be a cause for panic when that happens. In my opinion, the numbers seem still somewhat better than expected, despite the recent rises and variant concerns. |
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 33281290)
They are in beds with mechanical ventilation provided with the bed unit. Which is a complex way to weave around the various definitions of intensive care bed arrangements. What it means is that 128 people are sufficiently ill that they are getting 24 hour nursing one on one. Not many will actually be on a ventilator as such. About 70% have not had a vaccine at all, or one dose only in the last 20 days. The rise from 124 to 128 isn't too concerning, given during late January it was 4,000 in ICU.
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Originally Posted by Internaut
(Post 33282606)
Ok, so according to Matt Hancock, one in ten of the people currently in hospital with the Indian variant have had both jabs. He seemed to imply those were all very old.
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Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 33282656)
Did he say how many have had a single jab? That could be more pertinent.
Originally Posted by TheGraun
Mark Harper (Con) asks about the India variant. He says he thinks the vaccines are very effective at stopping serious disease, including from the Indian variant. If that is the case, does Hancock agree that full reopening should go ahead from 21 June.
Hancock says this is the key question. In Covid hotspots, he says one person in 10 in hospital has had both jabs. He says this suggests that we can have a “high degree of confidence” that the vaccines are effective against serious illness. But it also shows they are not 100% effective, he says. He says we will know more about this in the coming weeks. |
1 in 10 with both jabs in hospital seems quite bad actually.
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Originally Posted by Dan1113
(Post 33282763)
1 in 10 with both jabs in hospital seems quite bad actually.
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas
(Post 33282393)
you are forgetting 2 very key facts. 1. it was the middle of winter when respiratory diseases are at their worst. 2. almost no one had been vaccinated at that time.
previous trajectories are irrelevant now, you would have already seen a large increase if there was no immunity in genpop. HMG even said it, higher cases alone are to be expected. The recent trajectory, before the Indian variant took hold in a few areas, had been downwards. The vaccine levels were climbing and we'd emerged from the hardest lockdown. Overall, though, the immunity from vaccination would have been a bit worse than it is now, and the metrological conditions for transmission more favourable. Even in that situation the numbers were consistently getting better. At some point, clearly, there will come a point where we bump along at a base level - much as we always have with other viruses which primarily transmit through the air - but the experience in Israel suggests that perhaps we are not quite at that point, hence rises need to be treated with caution until more data is available. Maybe - hopefully - the downward trend will resume shortly, but no-one should be claiming that's a certainty this early in the game, or that a rise is good news when we should likely still be seeing improvement. With respect, "ahmet from Flyertalk said so" probably isn't going to cut it so far as government policy is concerned. Numbers continuing to drop - as we saw with the Kent variant - could have been portrayed as good news, i.e. the effect of the Indian variant was not as bad as feared. Numbers now rising ostensibly because that variant is strongly present in a few areas may not yet be a cause for panic, but it ought to at least provide some reflection and focus on what needs to be done. I also happen to think that there is an over-reaction to the current spread of the virus, and the right actions will contain it, but I've seen enough with lots of viruses to know that you keep your tinder dry when making predictions, else there's a very good chance of looking foolish at the end of it! |
Originally Posted by KARFA
(Post 33282771)
Since the vaccines are generally around 90-95% effective, why do you come to that conclusion?
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