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-   -   Local lockdowns in the UK (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/u-k-ireland/2025295-local-lockdowns-uk.html)

wilsnunn May 21, 2021 8:22 am

A colleague tried the Islington Business Design Centre earlier this week and was told that they no longer give out spare doses. Seems a bit odd to me though.

Silver Fox May 21, 2021 8:41 am


Originally Posted by Swanhunter (Post 33268138)
Looks like targeted call ups for 33 year olds in London now. Lucky devils are getting Pfizer too.

They won't be saying that when they start goosestepping, asking for papers, and trying to put everything in order all the time. Don't tell him your name Pike! :)

DaveS May 21, 2021 9:09 am

Daily data:

Cases 2,829 (2,193 last Friday)
Deaths 9 (17)
Patients admitted 101 (104 on the 10th)
Patients in hospital 913 (1,060 on the 12th)
Patients on ventilator 123 (129 on the 13th)
People vaccinated up to and including 20 May 2021:
First dose: 37,518,614
Second dose: 21,659,783

The rolling seven day daily average for cases is now up 6.1% on the previous week and the same measure for deaths is down 40.0%. The rolling 7 day daily average for deaths is now down to 6.0. Daily deaths for the UK has been in single figures everyday for the last week.

stut May 21, 2021 9:20 am


Originally Posted by lwildernorva (Post 33268222)
Thanks for the replies which provided some insight. There is definitely a difference in philosophy because my two-shot Pfizer doses, administered in March, were given with the advice that I shouldn't let more than three weeks pass between the two. I wonder if our approach was influenced by a number of news stories in the US concerning dose spoilage? No matter to me now, of course, and it seems as if booster shots in the fall are likely to be encouraged for all of us.

Could be a number of things - differences between vector and mRNA vaccines, difference in "off-label" attitudes in more vs less commercial healthcare environments, the interesting relationship between the UK government, Oxford and AZ surrounding the vaccine...

KARFA May 21, 2021 9:51 am

Two changes for Scotland https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/211/made

As of tomorrow Moray is moved from level 3 to level 2. Therefore the movement restrictions for Moray also cease.

Glasgow remains at level 3, and for those living in Glasgow you should not leave the area or remain outside except for a reasonable excuse. And for those living outside they should not enter or remain in a level 3 area except for a reasonable excuse and to travel through to reach an area outside.

Another change taking effect from Monday, a change to movement restrictions in to and out of Scotland. Within the UK there is generally free movement. However from Monday you cannot leave Scotland for the purpose of entering the following areas in the UK, and if you live in these area in the UK you cannot enter Scotland. The areas are:


Bedford Borough Council
Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council
Bolton Metropolitan Borough Council
Not quite sure how they expect to enforce that one.

Schwann May 21, 2021 9:52 am


Originally Posted by wilsnunn (Post 33268331)
A colleague tried the Islington Business Design Centre earlier this week and was told that they no longer give out spare doses. Seems a bit odd to me though.

It could be because of the recent rule changes which allows them to keep the Pfizer vaccine for longer at lower temperatures thus the need to "use them up" is much less.

bluemoon68 May 21, 2021 10:39 am


Originally Posted by Schwann (Post 33268550)
It could be because of the recent rule changes which allows them to keep the Pfizer vaccine for longer at lower temperatures thus the need to "use them up" is much less.

Islington business centre is Moderna. There may not be many spares, but I thought they must be an opened vial that needs finishing. Maybe they have enough staff to take their spares for now.

cardsqc May 21, 2021 10:57 am


Originally Posted by lwildernorva (Post 33268222)
Thanks for the replies which provided some insight. There is definitely a difference in philosophy because my two-shot Pfizer doses, administered in March, were given with the advice that I shouldn't let more than three weeks pass between the two. I wonder if our approach was influenced by a number of news stories in the US concerning dose spoilage? No matter to me now, of course, and it seems as if booster shots in the fall are likely to be encouraged for all of us.

When Pfizer and Moderna released their vaccines, *their* recommendations was the 3 week period. I'm guessing that probably tracked with how they did their trials, which undoubtedly had the shorter period between the shots (otherwise the approvals would have been that much longer - think where we'd have been with vaccinations if the companies had had to wait another 2-3 months before approval). Because of supply constraints, (from what I can tell as a non UK person), the UK decided to go against the advice of the drug companies and instead try to get more people injected with their first dose and spread the limited supply of doses and hope to get as many people with at least some protection. And ultimately, especially after longer term studies, that seems to have been a pretty reasonable choice to do. But I do suspect a lot of the advice from the drug companies came simply because they'd had to use the shorter period of time to study in order to get things approved in a timely manner, and if they'd had more time to do the initial studies, they'd probably have advised the longer time between.

It might have been interesting to see if things might have been different here in the US if we'd gone that way. Obviously it's tough to tell. We had pretty good ramp-up of supplies for the vaccines, to the point where we've been such that just about anyone who qualifies can get it right now. And that's with a population 5x the size of the UK. Course, we've also had a much lower percentage of people that are willing to get the vaccines (on *both* sides of the political spectrum), so we may have only distributed 2-3x as many vaccine doses. I'd be curious though if the UK approach would have made a difference here in Michigan where despite some of the tighter lock downs compared to a lot of the US, we had that spike in the spring. Course, I also wonder if we'd have been a lot lower if our spring weather hadn't sucked and more people had spent more time outside, where there's little evidence that covid is spreading.

corporate-wage-slave May 21, 2021 11:48 am


Originally Posted by lwildernorva (Post 33267323)
What advantages are there that you see to the wider spread between the two shots? Less need for a booster shot later? More efficacy to lessen the serious effects or mortality rates? Interesting to me because it seems there's a definite difference in philosophy between the protocols. I just want a safer world to move around in.

I agree with a lot of the statements made above, but there is one important point that needs to be underlined: from a basic immunology point of view this approach was not a risk at all, spreading out the doses is what works in every other context with B and T cell conversion. The reason for 3 and 4 weeks was all about getting 30,000 Phase 3 participants over a 50% effectiveness hurdle to get MHRA / FDA / EMA / WHO endorsement. Had it been 8 weeks then vaccine rollout could have been delayed by actually a lot more than 5 weeks, given the iterative way testing works. So going for 3 or 4 weeks is utterly sensible for Phase 3. Going for 8 to 16 weeks for rollout is even more sensible, it's just how the immune system works.

A number of real world studies has endorsed the UK's approach in terms of the "delaying" the second dose (I don't even buy into that language). This was combined with a Lockdown. an age focused vaccine rollout, and putting emphasis on getting at least 85% coverage in the over 50 age group. We are actually on 96% coverage so beyond our wildest dreams, given that at one point 22% of the UK said they would be reluctant to get a vaccine. Swiss Cheese Model again: having 60% coverage is one huge gaping hole, you have to get a higher percentage of older people jabbed up than that.

Remember at the start of the rollout - the UK had a higher death rate than the USA and a similar infection rate. Both countries started vaccines at the same stage, with the USA having a supply advantage but a big public health disadvantage in terms of fragmentation. At the moment you are 12 times more likely to die of COVID in the USA compared to UK or Israel. And the USA approach is much more expensive in the long run too.

corporate-wage-slave May 21, 2021 1:40 pm


Originally Posted by DaveS (Post 33268438)
The rolling seven day daily average for cases is now up 6.1% on the previous week and the same measure for deaths is down 40.0%. The rolling 7 day daily average for deaths is now down to 6.0. Daily deaths for the UK has been in single figures everyday for the last week.

Just to underline the significance of this: the death rate is now the lowest since 15 March 2020, right at the start of the pandemic. Lower than at any point in the summer of last year. The infection rate is not at the lowest point, indeed rising a little of late, we've gone slightly about 25 per 100k per 7 days, but this is the difference the vaccines are making - turning COVID-19 into a non-lethal disease.

ahmetdouas May 21, 2021 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 33269116)
Just to underline the significance of this: the death rate is now the lowest since 15 March 2020, right at the start of the pandemic. Lower than at any point in the summer of last year. The infection rate is not at the lowest point, indeed rising a little of late, we've gone slightly about 25 per 100k per 7 days, but this is the difference the vaccines are making - turning COVID-19 into a non-lethal disease.

so will we open fully on June 21?
also what’s the opinion at HMG for so many ppl flying to amber, will this pressure them to speed up green ? (E.g. Spain now allows anyone from UK in without any test or quarantine, while on the way back you need 3 tests and quarantine !)

Dan1113 May 21, 2021 3:39 pm

Whereas Germany now lists the UK as a variant county almost effectively banning travel between the two countries.

ahmetdouas May 21, 2021 3:55 pm


Originally Posted by Dan1113 (Post 33269339)
Whereas Germany now lists the UK as a variant county almost effectively banning travel between the two countries.

Sounds like politics to me. It’s hilarious how Spain says come UK with Zero restrictions while Germany is treating us like we are criminals. It’s literally two complete opposites by 2 major EU countries.

Internaut May 21, 2021 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by ahmetdouas (Post 33269222)
so will we open fully on June 21?
also what’s the opinion at HMG for so many ppl flying to amber, will this pressure them to speed up green ? (E.g. Spain now allows anyone from UK in without any test or quarantine, while on the way back you need 3 tests and quarantine !)

I think we will know definitely in the next 2-3 weeks if the link between case rates and hospitalisations deaths has been broken. Only if i) this is proven and ii) the long, slow motion car crash of news doesn’t deliver another super scary variant of brown underpants, can we be confident that restrictions will be eased as planned.

cauchy May 21, 2021 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by bluemoon68 (Post 33268676)
Islington business centre is Moderna. There may not be many spares, but I thought they must be an opened vial that needs finishing. Maybe they have enough staff to take their spares for now.

Got refused at Reading today - they were doing Moderna / AZ today. The person at the entrance was super helpful, mentioned a few local pharmacies that might oblige.


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