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-   -   Clear ceases operations & is back [merged threads] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trusted-travelers/967565-clear-ceases-operations-back-merged-threads.html)

Dovster Jun 23, 2009 4:09 pm


Originally Posted by Echo (Post 11957395)
You must love it when airline staff are allowed to go in front of you.

I am not particularly thrilled with it. I realize that they are working and have to get to their jobs on time, but that is also true of a great number of passengers. The passengers are expected to get to the TSA lines in time to get on the plane, so why not airline staff?

That said, there are generally only a few airline staffers who cut ahead at any one particular time. Had Clear been a success, there was no limit to the number of passengers who might keep me waiting.

kokonutz Jun 23, 2009 4:11 pm


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 11957376)
You would be right if Clear paid the TSA to establish an additional check point for its members. In that case, in fact, Clear would even be providing a service to non-members by reducing their waits by having fewer people go through their checkpoints.

It is my understanding, however, that this was not the case. A Clear member simply showed his pass and walked to the front of the line -- and proceeded to go through the same checkpoint as everyone else.

If I am waiting on that line, and you get in front of me, Clear has basically sold you my time. What gives them the right to do that? How about if I am the next to be checked and suddenly 30 Clear members walk in front of me?

If you are waiting in line to buy tickets to a movie, would you agree that John Jones can cut in front of you simply by paying Bill Smith a few dollars?

My understanding is that Clear subsidized extra TSA screening facilities. That, for example, the entire 'Diamond Security Checkpoint' at IAD was paid for by Clear. But that, as part of their ongoing efforts to undermine Clear, TSA insisted on lumping SOME general pax into the lanes Clear was paying for.

So in your hypothetical, even though I am 'cutting in front of you' as I approach TSA, in actuality you are lucky to be in such a short line in the first place.

If my understanding is incorrect, please correct me.

bwhite Jun 23, 2009 4:11 pm

TSA Justification for Checking ID
 
From their website:


At the security checkpoint, TSA strives to ensure you are who you say you are. TSA performs travel document checking to see that you, your identification, and your boarding pass match and are valid. TSA performs this function because identity matters and it is critical to security to ensure that individuals with hostile intent do not board aircraft.
What a crock... all courtesy of the Bush/Cheney "fear everything" proganda machine.

Dovster Jun 23, 2009 4:15 pm


Originally Posted by kokonutz (Post 11957540)

If my understanding is incorrect, please correct me.

I do not know if you are correct or not. If you are, then I would have no problem with Clear. If it is only getting you to the head of an existing facility, I would have a problem with it.

HSVTSO Dean Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm


Originally Posted by NY-FLA
Yep, we know, you're going to scan the bar codes with an airline connected scanner. But what if I have another BP that I really intend to use? Go ahead; scan that CRC gate pass all day. Check my fully refundable ticket BP at one of those beloved gate dragnets; proves nothing; accomplishes less.

Oh, no, not that. There's going to be considerably more to it than that, if what I've heard is correct. Since I don't know it for absolute truth, however, I'm going to stick with my original statement:

Wait.

Dovster Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm


Originally Posted by bwhite (Post 11957541)
What a crock... all courtesy of the Bush/Cheney "fear everything" proganda machine.

Yes, but now that we have change we can believe in, all of that has stopped, right?

Echo Jun 23, 2009 4:16 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11957513)
This company couldn't manage money - how can it be trusted to handle something that's more complicated than a 2-decimal place floating point number?

Another silly false comparison. How can someone manage a security policy when they can't manage money? How can someone drive a car if they can't drive a motorcycle?

It's also possible that this entire function was outsourced to someone like EDS, CSC, or IBM GS. Of course, then I'd just be making silly speculation like others on here.

Spiff Jun 23, 2009 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by Echo (Post 11957564)
Another silly false comparison. How can someone manage a security policy when they can't manage money? How can someone drive a car if they can't drive a motorcycle?

It's also possible that this entire function was outsourced to someone like EDS, CSC, or IBM GS. Of course, then I'd just be making silly speculation like others on here.

It's hardly silly, unlike your pathetic and rather speculative arguments.

So far, Clear has shown that they are unable to manage money and the jury's out on the rest.

Not very reassuring, in my opinion.

GoingAway Jun 23, 2009 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by Dovster (Post 11957558)
I do not know if you are correct or not. If you are, then I would have no problem with Clear. If it is only getting you to the head of an existing facility, I would have a problem with it.

It was dependent airport to airport. TSA covered the original "black" line at IAD as it was their own stupid idea and CLEAR was separate. When they combined, there could've been a subsidization but in the end, it's still the taxpayers money as we pay for training, equipment depreciation, etc -- they paid something but nothing near the reality of 100%.

kokonutz Jun 23, 2009 4:27 pm


Originally Posted by GoingAway (Post 11957575)
It was dependent airport to airport. TSA covered the original "black" line at IAD as it was their own stupid idea and CLEAR was separate. When they combined, there could've been a subsidization but in the end, it's still the taxpayers money as we pay for training, equipment depreciation, etc -- they paid something but nothing near the reality of 100%.

But what's wrong with paying a fee to be closer or more efficient? Works that way with baseball tickets. HOT lanes to the side (and yeah, what a freaking MESS they've made at Tysons), I can choose to drive to work on the Dulles Toll road or I can choose to drive to work on Route 7 or Hunter Mill.

For the sake of convenience and time, I tend to pay to take the Toll Road to work. Heck, I even have an electronic device that lets me do it more easily (and HORROR OF HORRORS means I am giving up my 'privacy' as some random EZ company now knows my driving habits and has my credit card 411!!!!!).

We all make ROI choices like this. Clear was simply one more pay-for-convenience service.

But it was one that TSA hated and so undermined to the point of bankruptcy.

I'll say that again, Spiff: poor money management didnt shut Clear down. Your buddies at TSA did. Whatever happened to 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend!?!?! :p

Echo Jun 23, 2009 4:28 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11957571)
It's hardly silly, unlike your pathetic and rather speculative arguments.

So far, Clear has shown that they are unable to manage money and the jury's out on the rest.

Not very reassuring, in my opinion.

Like I said -- instead of being an alarmist, I'm just sitting back to see how everything unfolds.

You, on the other hand, are apparently hiding in a bunker making sure no one asks for your ID, muttering something about un-american this, un-american that. :rolleyes:

bocastephen Jun 23, 2009 4:28 pm


Originally Posted by Echo (Post 11957449)
This is the industry I'm in. Some companies will handle an event like this well, some will handle it poorly. We don't know how they will handle it until they handle it.

What you're calling "common sense" is just purely negative speculation.

This company has a great deal more information about customers than most - and if you think sitting quietly and waiting for good things to happen is your way of handling the protection of your private information, I wish you good luck.

To other former customers who should be legitimately concerned about how CLEAR will safeguard your personal data in perpetuity beyond the life of this company - I strongly urge you to form a group, hire a lawyer (perhaps there are a few among you) and go to court to have this issue remedied before it's too late.

There is blood in the water - you can either be bait or a shark. Choose wisely.

aviators99 Jun 23, 2009 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by Echo (Post 11957564)
Another silly false comparison. How can someone manage a security policy when they can't manage money? How can someone drive a car if they can't drive a motorcycle?

It's also possible that this entire function was outsourced to someone like EDS, CSC, or IBM GS. Of course, then I'd just be making silly speculation like others on here.

Also, it's kind of hard to manage money when you're not getting any. I claim that they couldn't manage the marketing---or that there simply wasn't much of a market. The business was not viable, and even the best money managers couldn't have helped. They also ran up against interference from TSA at every turn. I myself have been frustrated by the TSA's refusal to accept my Clear card as ID.

Dovster Jun 23, 2009 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by kokonutz (Post 11957607)
But what's wrong with paying a fee to be closer or more efficient? Works that way with baseball tickets.

It doesn't work that way at all with baseball tickets. You pay the team more in order to get a better seat from them (and they are the ones who have the right to that seat).

You do NOT pay a third party to get ahead of me in the line to buy tickets. That third party has absolutely no right to sell my time.

N965VJ Jun 23, 2009 4:34 pm


Originally Posted by bwhite (Post 11957541)
<SNIP> What a crock... all courtesy of the Bush/Cheney "fear everything" proganda machine.

There’s plenty of bipartisan blame to go around. Don’t forget Tom Daschle’s little nursery rhyme about “federalize to professionalize”.


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