Newbie2FT

Hmm, when you completed the Global Entry application online, in the 'Documents proving citizenship and admissibility' portion, did you enter information about your U.S. naturalization certificate, in addition to your U.S. passport?

(You could check by reviewing your completed application in the TTP system.)

If yes, then we have an answer about why they included that bullet point for you.

If no, that's really odd. Apparently, with the transition from the GOES to TTP systems, they also significantly changed the language of the appointment confirmation.

However, it now implicitly contradicts the wording of the conditional approval letter and of the official CBP INFO answer about what documents are required -- neither of which specifies the naturalization certificate.

[EDIT: Actually, could you check your own conditional approval letter, and see if it mentions bringing your naturalization certificate?]

Earlier this year, I helped a naturalized U.S. citizen with the process, before the GOES-to-TTP transition, and there was no such instruction on the appointment confirmation.

That person did not present a naturalization certificate and was not asked for one at the interview. And I have not seen people on FlyerTalk report being asked to show a naturalization certificate.

Based on all that, I strongly doubt that you would be asked for it at the interview.

There appears to be a disconnect between the CBP official who wrote the language of the appointment confirmation, and the actual CBP officer practice at the interviews.

If you would still like to be on the absolute safe side, one other option may be to obtain several certified copies of your naturalization certificate at the local USCIS office. That way, you could travel to South America with a certified copy, not the original.

krisk17

Don't remember top of my head. Could be, will check tomorrow.

EDIT: Yes, I did enter details of my NC on my application. :/

Thank you Newbie2FT.


I was thinking of getting it certified at a bank or public office, but USCIS is an interesting option. is it a free service?

EDIT: The USCIS infopass appointment page times out on look up. IF it doesn't go through, I might do a walk in.

Also, If I show up with a certified copy(along with PP and DL) for the interview, whats the worst that can happen? Ask me to upload documents later? or worse case reschedule to another day? They wouldn't reject the application itself.?

TIA

Newbie2FT

Ah well, that explains it. The application system allows you to add as many documents from the various categories of citizenship documents as you'd like -- passport, naturalization certificate, citizenship certificate, birth certificate, etc.

The downside is that you're then instructed to bring the document.

As for the certificate copy -- technically, federal law prohibits most reproduction of naturalization certificates. U.S. Code, title 18, section 1426:Is this law actually enforced against average Joes? -- highly unlikely, but still.

The face of the certificate itself says (EDIT: until 2009 or 2010 said):


(EDIT: There was no warning on the face of the certificate from about 2010 to 2012. More current warning language from 2014 onward is discussed further down-thread.)

At least the "lawful authority" clause recognizes that it's okay to copy under certain circumstances. The previous versions of the certificate made it seem like *any* copying, even with lawful authority, was illegal:




Various state Secretaries of State also remind their notaries public that even in those states where notaries are allowed to certify copies of records, those notaries may not certify copies of naturalization certificates:

krisk17

25 years.? WOW! Well, thank you for the pointer.

Worse case scenario, what happens if they do ask for the NC and I only have my PP and DL(say I dont get a certified copy in time)? Would they reject my application? or recommend rescheduling?

Newbie2FT

Like I mention in my last paragraph, if you're missing a document, the CBP officer will likely give you some period of time, like two weeks, to return to the office to present it to them. (Of course, you could request to send it in by fax or email.)

Also, as a practical matter, you might just be able to avoid the topic entirely by not mentioning it during the interview.

Also, after you had responded, I added a note about what to do if your name was Americanized / changed as part of the naturalization (I saw you had a previous post about having a very long name).

krisk17

Planning to Like you said earlier, NC was a pre-req for passport. So its given. Baffles why I added NC during my appln,? Oh well, you learn something new.

Thank you for your help

Newbie2FT

You're welcome. Good luck. And if you could come back here after your interview and say what happened, that'd be helpful.

Often1

Given the wording of the notice and the new portal, I would err on the side of caution and bring the NC.

You ought to have several copies (certified) of your NC in any event. Kept at separate locations, as with all critical documents.

Banks can't certify documents, only the record holder can certify that it is issuing a "true copy" and that is what you need.

If you are asked for the NC and cannot produce it, you will likely be sent away and told to come back with it. That is a massive hassle against the minor hassle of certified copies which you ought to have in any event.

Newbie2FT

Just to clarify:

Many banks have one or two employees who are also a notary public, and they notarize documents for accountholders and the general public.

In about half of the 50 states, notaries public are allowed under state law to make photocopies of most documents and certify the photocopies as "true copies" or "certified copies".

For example, under the section of Nevada law on 'Notarial Act' definitions (Nevada Revised Statutes section 240.004):
However, in probably all of those states that allow copy certification by notary, notaries still cannot certify copies of a public record, with varying definitions of what that constitutes. For example, under Nevada Revised Statutes section 240.075 (Notarial 'Prohibited Acts'):
And, of course, because of that federal law I mentioned earlier, notaries should likely not be making certified copies of naturalization certificates, except, perhaps, under certain very limited circumstances that would be considered "lawful authority." (In any case, the notary would probably be too scared by the ominous warning on the front of the certificate to agree to it.)

I agree with your general advice that KrisK should request several certified copies at the local USCIS office, and store them in various safe places.

krisk17

Thank you Newbie2FT and Often1.

Updates as of this AM, can't find an info pass appointment before I leave. So booked one for the coming week, with which I plan to do an early walk in(from my n-400 experience, some centers do accept walk-ins). Worse case they turn me away.

Either way, I don't plan on carrying the original NC with me. Too much risk trotting 3+ countries, but great advice on having multiple certified copies. Worse case, again, they turn me away and I reschedule.

krisk17

Made me ponder....

1.
"Whoever, without lawful authority, prints, photographs, makes or executes any print or impression in the likeness of a certificate of arrival, declaration of intention to become a citizen, or certificate of naturalization or citizenship, or any part thereof—"

Think this would apply, if say John Doe, impersonates a naturalized citizen for immigration benefits.
Would it be illegal for the naturalized citizen to make a copy of his/her own certificate?Who owns the NC?


2. "IT IS PUNISHABLE BY U.S. LAW TO COPY, PRINT, OR PHOTOGRAPH THIS CERTIFICATE, WITHOUT LAWFUL AUTHORITY"

Not sure how old that NC link was, but they sure changed the verbiage since. Mine says "Alteration or misuse of this document is a federal offense and punishable by law"


Thoughts?


Either way, I agree, certified copies from USCIS is the way to go!

1KChinito

I realize this thread is about Global Entry not NEXUS. Both require basically the same documentation. When I applied for NEXUS, officer (American side) asked for my U.S. naturalization certificate. I informed him I did not bring it because I had a valid U.S. passport which required original U.S. naturalization certificate. He just laughed and took my U.S. passport and California driver license as I.D.s.

Over the years, besides applying for my initial U.S. passport, no one else requires me, as a must, to produce my original U.S. naturalization certificate. A valid U.S. passport is sufficient in all cases.

Newbie2FT

Re: personal copies. Many people are informally instructed by USCIS officers at their naturalization ceremony to make copies of their naturalization certificate and store it in a safe place. Especially when combined with a reasonable reason to make the copies ("to be able to still prove my citizenship in case of burglary, fire, or natural disaster"), those people could very likely make a claim of "lawful authority" required by 18 USC 1426 -- or at a minimum, have a successful defense. Of course, it is *extremely* unlikely the average person would even be considered for prosecution under those circumstances. (And, in practical terms, apparently even immigration attorneys advise their clients they can make photocopies of the certificate.)

Explicit allowances for copying are also made in a number of situations, like when individuals need to submit a photocopy when applying for a U.S. passport, or when state Medicaid employees need to photocopy the certificate.

As for ownership, while the individual probably technically possesses or owns the document, the federal government may also establish laws and regulations about activities that are illegal to perform upon the certificate.

Re: copying wording. Interesting -- you're right, that certificate was from 1999.

Apparently, the language I thought was current ("IT IS PUNISHABLE BY U.S. LAW...") was only in use until about 2009. And
from about 2010 to 2012, there was no warning at all
! By 2014, the wording you mentioned ("ALTERATION OR MISUSE OF THIS DOCUMENT IS A FEDERAL OFFENSE AND PUNISHABLE BY LAW") was added to the certificate.

krisk17

Thanks Newbie2FT.

BTW, USP application requires the applicant to submit the original NC, not a copy. Also, I was able to obtain a certified copy at the USCIS office(walk in). It pays to ask nicely.

Data point: While the USCIS website recommends bringing your own copies for the infopass appointment, the clerk makes their own copies(which is what I went with).

Newbie2FT

Re naturalization certificate for passport: Hmm, that's odd. The instructions for Form DS-11 ("Application for a U.S. Passport") say:

"WHAT TO SUBMIT WITH THIS FORM: 1. PROOF OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP: Evidence of U.S. citizenship AND a photocopy of the front (and back, if there is printed information) must be submitted with your application. The photocopy must be on 8 ˝ inch by 11 inch paper, black and white ink, legible, and clear."

Did you get expedited or same-day service at a U.S. Passport Agency regional office? (Because they can process the passport within the office, they might have been more willing to use the original for all the verification steps?) Or, if you submitted your application at a post office, maybe the postal clerk did you a favor and made the photocopy for you?

Re USCIS: That's great news. I'm glad it worked out for you. Did the office seem very busy? How long did you wait, and how long did the process take? Did the front-door security try to send you away because you lacked an appointment?

And, yeah, it's confusing that the instructions explicitly say to "be sure to bring your original naturalization certificate and a copy of it . . . . A USCIS officer will review the documents and may certify the copy" -- when in fact, they don't trust people at all and want to make their own copies!

And the fact that the Form G-24 attachment is even added to a simple photocopy certification is sort of interesting, ya?

Looks like you're all set for your Global Entry interview. Like I said, it's unlikely the CBP officer will even ask for the certificate but at least you have the certified copy -- and it would be nuts if (s)he didn't accept a certified copy at all. Congrats on finishing the preliminary hurdles.