FlyingHoustonian

Except in the half-a-dozen or more legal ways where it is not...

SeriouslyLost

Very true. Clearly, someone shouldn't assume that any particular airline would follow the law and not just create their own immigration standards out of thin air. Of course, there's one small problem with allowing that theory to hold...

emcampbe

Are you referring to an airline requiring passports for Canada-US and vv. travel?

An airline rule is not the same as an immigration rule. Obviously, there's debate over whether a passport is required for Canada-US and return travel from an immigration perspective for NEXUS members - that is clear in this thread. I have the opinion that I don't really care about figuring out which part of which website is right vs. wrong, and I always carry my passport for transborder flights - it means I know I don't have to worry. But if an airline, for example, let's pick one at random, say, Porter, requires you to have a passport to board a transborder flight, and you can't produce it on their request, then they can deny you boarding. It doesn't matter if immigration doesn't require it. Heck, an airline can require you to show a passport at boarding of a domestic flight if that's their rule - sure, that would be overkill and burdensome, but they can do it.

If you don't like it, of course, you have options to fly a competitor that has more lenient requirements. Or you can take it up with them to try and get them to change the rule. Or you can go to through the court system if you think the rule violates some law, TC regulations, discriminates against you, etc. and let the judge rule. But until the time that its changed, if Porter requires a passport, then if you want to fly on their transborder flights, its probably a good idea to have a passport. That's pretty much the end of story.

AA_EXP09

not true-I have boarded flights to HK with just a HKID.
(as you probably know, there are no domestic flights to HKG.)

n3xu5

Not true, at least in the USA, Canada and EU, no airlines can require a passport for a domestic flight. In Europe, no airlines can require a passport for a continent-to-UK flight, even if there is a strong immigration control on the UK side ; a national ID card would suffice if you have one of course (UK citizens don’t have that option and non-EU visitors would need a passport).

I once took a US domestic flight with just my Quebec driver’s licence. Airline was fine with it at both check-in and boarding. Security control guy was a pain. He insisted on seeing my passport. I refused and asked him to open this webpage http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/acceptable-ids
Which he did reluctantly and then acknowledged that a provincial driver’s licence was enough.

More, my Canadian passport was once denied by Air Transat in YUL for a one-way flight to CDG. Reason: no return ticket, so needed more information on my trip. I explained that it was just (long) vacation and show them my EU ID card (I don’t have a EU passport anymore) which was accepted immediately as a prove that I can enter Schengen without being questioned. I think that even with a return ticket, EU ID card are acceptable for any flight to the EU, whatever the origin, but not sure every agent would know that.

Back to the TSA list, I never really noticed that if you are a US citizen without passport or driver’s licence, you don’t have a lot of other options to travel by air domestically. Is this the reason why some people think they need a passport to take a domestic flight? At least in Canada everyone has a… health insurance card.

SeriouslyLost

Sorry, I was being a bit obscure. I'll make it plainer: companies cannot extend law. If the law says X,Y, or Z is acceptable for A, B, or C then a company can't further restrict X, Y, or Z.




No, they can't. They can have all the rules they want outside of law ("We only ticket left handed pax") but within the law they are bound.

cestmoi123

This just isn't true. Clearly, if an airline is going to have some requirement that's radically outside the norm, and you were denied boarding because of it, you'd have a good legal case for a refund. That said, if United wanted to start requiring that all passengers on the LGA-ORD route produce a passport and a note from their third grade teacher, and provided ample notice prior to booking so people without passports or living third grade teachers could choose another carrier, they could legally do so (absent any illegally discriminatory intent or effect).

TSA says X, Y, or Z are acceptable for transiting the security checkpoint. That doesn't prevent an airline from having additional requirements for boarding the plane.

pa3lsvt

Most (all?) US states have a non-driver's equivalent ID available to residents. "Walker's License" if you will.

In my home state, they require the same documentation as a bona fide DL just without any driving certification. They are identical in most ways to a true DL but say "IDENTIFICATION CARD" instead of "DRIVER'S LICENSE" and don't carry any of the motor vehicle endorsement/restriction fields. Key is that the security features are the same (holograms, etc.) on both IDs and they are both issued by the same authority (Penn DOT) here.

SeriouslyLost

Let's try again and re-phrase: I don't think you understand the consequences of what you're saying. You're basically saying that companies are above the law and can simply re-write them. That's not how it works.

Yoshi212

The statement that this is response to is complete crap. A company can make certain requirements for transport (think having the corresponding credit/debit card) and question the travel of those that try to travel outside those established norms. OP didn't get refused boarding. OP got questioned for established norms of transport. The PD staff are probably trained to follow such directives to avoid fines for transporting someone whom is illegible for transport. When traveling across a boarder it is not far from the norm to ask someone if they have a passport nor to ask to see such a document. OP dramatized the thread title and this thread should be closed as the airline OP was traveling has stated policies.

cestmoi123

That's not at all what I'm saying. New York law says that my NY driver's license is sufficient to drive a sedan in New York State - I don't need to have a Visa or Amex to get into a car and drive it. That in no way prevents Hertz from requiring a credit card if I want to rent a car from them in NY. To use another example, to practice law in NY, you need to be admitted to the bar. That doesn't mean that, if you're admitted to the bar, a law firm has to hire you.

If the law said "airlines must allow any passenger to board who has passed the security checkpoint," then you'd have a point. It doesn't.

emcampbe

I don't think anyone is suggesting that any corporate entity can "extend" the law, or change it in any way. But they can make rules that are different, and unless it's unconstitutional, found to be illegal, etc, there's no reason why they can't.

So even though there is debate about whether a Nexus card on its own is valid documentation to cross the border by air, let's assume for the moment that it is. Ok - so anyone with a Nexus card only can go through immigration to the U.S. Or Canada and be admitted without argument - great.

That still says nothing about what Porter or any other airline will accept as ID. That doesn't mean they're above the law - or Porter passengers have a higher standard to gain entrance to Canada/US. It says simply that despite a Nexus card being able to authenticate one across the border, it won't work to get me on a PD cross border flight. That's it. Its pretty simple, really.

Similar with TSA requirements. They are different. So say I'm at EWR and clearing security for a PD flight. I don't need to show my passport or Nexus card, I'm perfectly ok to show just a drivers license. That doesn't mean the same piece of ID will allow me onboard the flight I'm about to get on, or into Canada when I land. It just means requirements are different. It has nothing to do with "extending" the law - it's just a different set of rules.

AA_EXP09

No, you are required to show a passport/NEXUS card according to TIMATIC

R9) Passport Requirements when departing the USA

............................................

All nationals departing the USA will be required to hold a

(valid) passport (booklet only, US Passport Card not
accepted).
Exempt are holders of:
- US Permanent Resident/Resident Alien Card (Form I-551);
- US Military ID Cards when traveling on official orders;
- US Merchant Mariner Card;
- NEXUS Card;
- US Travel Document:
**Refugee Travel Document (Form I-571); OR
**Permit to Re-Enter (Form I-327);
- Emergency Travel Document (e.g. Consular Letter) issued by a
Foreign Embassy or Consulate specifically for the purpose of
travel to the bearers home country.

Going to Canada (which all PD flights do) means you are departing the USA.

SeriouslyLost

I don't thing you're getting what is being said. In your example a credit card is required for the rental part of the transaction, not the driving part. But that's not what you've been saying or what I've been responding to. If the law says X, Y, or Z is required for travel then an airline cannot extend the law and say that they will only accept X or Y. They can, to go back to your example, require a credit card to pay for the ticket because the law is entirely silent on that point.

ETA: And as an aside, no, I never had any expectation of being hired by a NY firm. Thanx. & we're clearly not communicating (for whatever reason) so I'm leaving it to you from here on in. Have at it.

emcampbe

Sorry, what you posted is irrelevant to my point. The requirements you posted from TIMATIC have no relation to what the TSA requires for me to go through security, which is what I was referring to in the text you quoted from me. Like I said, just because I can show it to TSA, doesn't mean it will get me onboard a transborder flight or through immigration.

I am completely aware that I need a passport or other document listed to leave the US for Canada. That is the document I would be required to present to airline personal to show I have the required docs to leave the country or enter Canada - a DL wouldn't work there.

But TSA doesn't give a hoot whether I have or show a passport, and have no authority to deny me access to the the secure area if I show them a different TSA-approved document. They care that my TSA-approved document matches who I am, and that it matches the name on the ticket. And as a case in point, I almost always use a drivers license at security, including for practically all my flights to Canada and other international destinations. I've never once even had a question about this from the person inspecting documents at security.