Application of DOT Rules to OTAs
May 1, 2020, 8:39 pm
#31
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
thanks, I know I am legally due the full amount. The problem here is that my CC transaction has the name of the airline on it so it's charged directly to the airline. I called the airline and they are saying it's impossible for them to refund me since it's a 3rd party booking. I'm not sure if I can dispute the transaction if the refund I receive isn't for the full amount as that dispute will be for the charge by the airline and the airline would've already refunded the full amount to the OTA... so it gets complicated here. A DOT complaint may be the best route.
May 2, 2020, 10:50 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2010
Location: TPA
Programs: All The Programs
Posts: 2,204
Except that you did receive something of value. You asked the OTA to book a ticket and they did just that. If you ask them to process a refund, they'll probably do that, too.
If you paid a separate fee to the OTA, then you should not expect it to be refunded.
If you did not pay a separate fee, which is common because airlines pay commissions, then it was actually the airline paying the OTA to issue the ticket. The OTA's lost revenue should be taken up with the airline and not the traveler.
If you paid a separate fee to the OTA, then you should not expect it to be refunded.
If you did not pay a separate fee, which is common because airlines pay commissions, then it was actually the airline paying the OTA to issue the ticket. The OTA's lost revenue should be taken up with the airline and not the traveler.
May 2, 2020, 11:02 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
They provided the service you asked for, ie to book you a ticket and deal with any follow up matters if required. Of course they should be paid for this. If you wanted the airline's Ts & Cs you should have booked direct, but for whatever reason you chose not to.
May 8, 2020, 11:23 am
#34
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
May 8, 2020, 11:55 am
#35
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If you have purchased a ticket which originates or terminates in the US and a flight is cancelled, you are entitled to a refund. If you request one and it it is not initiated within 7 days, then you should dispute the charge with your credit card issuer (bank). Supply a copy of your e-ticket receipt, the cancellation notice, your request for a refund, and any denial of a refund (or a note from you that you have not heard back).
Don't try to come up with inapplicable analogies, don't try to parse through the law of agency, and don't worry about how the card issuer, the carrier, and the TA sort it out.
In future, do not book through TA's other than bricks & mortar operations where you have a direct personal relationship with staff and they have a reason to properly serve you. Those TA's likely charge fees and only you can determine whether the level of service makes the fee worth it.
Don't try to come up with inapplicable analogies, don't try to parse through the law of agency, and don't worry about how the card issuer, the carrier, and the TA sort it out.
In future, do not book through TA's other than bricks & mortar operations where you have a direct personal relationship with staff and they have a reason to properly serve you. Those TA's likely charge fees and only you can determine whether the level of service makes the fee worth it.
May 8, 2020, 8:10 pm
#36
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
Except that the service is to provide a valid booking so the service wasn't delivered as agreed. The validity of the service is determined in whether the booking delivered by the agent can be consumed on the date of service. It's a pretty simple concept that you fail to understand apparently.
Your choice of words ". . .the validity of the service is determined in whether the booking delivered by the agent can be consumed on the date of service" helps your case if it was true, but it's not. Making the booking as per your instruction was a line item as it were and was completed to both of yours' satisfaction. Dealing with subsequent issues is another line item, not usually required, and the two can not be combined just to suit your case.
I don't know where you've made the purchase so don't know the legal situation, but morally the Travel Agent deserves payment. None of us work for free so there is no doubt about that.
For openness, I have never worked in the travel business so have no personal axe to grind in this matter.
May 11, 2020, 4:23 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
No, your understanding is incorrect. I don't really care about the airline, my dealings are not with the airline, the service I bought through the agent, the agent has not delivered the service. As another poster correctly mentioned above, a breakdown in the agent's supply chain isn't any of my concern. If the agent is unable to deliver the service due to a fault from their provider it is between the agent and the provider and not my problem.
May 11, 2020, 10:11 pm
#38
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
I would of course say the opposite, that it's your understanding or interpretation that is 100% wrong, but we're going nowhere so we'll have to agree that our opinions or viewpoints (as that's all they are) differ as to whether the TA has carried out chargeable work for you or not. For me he has, and I wouldn't dream of screwing him for his time and effort when he is, IMO, totally blameless.
May 12, 2020, 11:29 am
#39
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Of course the OTA deserves to be paid for the service.
However, the OTA should contact the airline to pay them for their service - not the customer.
They provided the service you asked for, ie to book you a ticket and deal with any follow up matters if required. Of course they should be paid for this. If you wanted the airline's Ts & Cs you should have booked direct, but for whatever reason you chose not to.
May 12, 2020, 12:10 pm
#40
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Location: DCA
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It is all irrelevant. As one is due a refund and it has not been paid out, a chargeback is in order and the carrier(s) and OTA can sort it out. Whichever merchant vendor, carrier or OTA, was paid the funds when you purchased, will see the debit and then sort it. You, as the customer do not and should not become involved in the intricacies of the transaction.
May 12, 2020, 6:26 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,380
just a note here, DOT issued a second enforcement notice
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%202020%29.pdf
a few points
good luck arguing what a "proper" refund means
and no 7-day-refund-rule for OTAs
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%202020%29.pdf
a few points
good luck arguing what a "proper" refund means
3. What rights do passengers have if they purchased their airline ticket from an online travel
agency?
Ticket agents are required to make “proper” refunds when service cannot be performed as contracted on
a flight to, within, or from the United States.6
The Department interprets the requirement for ticket agents to provide “proper” refunds to include providing refunds in any instance when the following
conditions are met: (i) an airline cancels or significantly changes a flight, (ii) an airline acknowledges
that a consumer is entitled to a refund, and (iii) passenger funds are possessed by a ticket agent. In
enforcing the requirement for ticket agents to make “proper” refunds, the Aviation Enforcement Office
will focus on the totality of the circumstances.
agency?
Ticket agents are required to make “proper” refunds when service cannot be performed as contracted on
a flight to, within, or from the United States.6
The Department interprets the requirement for ticket agents to provide “proper” refunds to include providing refunds in any instance when the following
conditions are met: (i) an airline cancels or significantly changes a flight, (ii) an airline acknowledges
that a consumer is entitled to a refund, and (iii) passenger funds are possessed by a ticket agent. In
enforcing the requirement for ticket agents to make “proper” refunds, the Aviation Enforcement Office
will focus on the totality of the circumstances.
6. How quickly must airlines and ticket agents process refunds?
Airlines and ticket agents are required to make refunds promptly. For airlines, prompt is defined as
being within 7 business days if a passenger paid by credit card, and within 20 days if a passenger paid
by cash or check.9
For ticket agents, prompt is not defined.10
The Aviation Enforcement Office
recognizes that, given the significant volume of refund requests resulting from the COVID-19 public
health emergency, processing refunds may take longer than normal and will determine the timeliness of
refund processing for ticket agents based on the totality of the circumstances, such as the volume of
incoming refund requests and steps taken to address the increased volume. Also, the Aviation
Enforcement Office will use its enforcement discretion and not take action against airlines for not
processing refunds within the required timeframes if, under the totality of the circumstances, they are
making good faith efforts to provide refunds in a timely manner.
Airlines and ticket agents are required to make refunds promptly. For airlines, prompt is defined as
being within 7 business days if a passenger paid by credit card, and within 20 days if a passenger paid
by cash or check.9
For ticket agents, prompt is not defined.10
The Aviation Enforcement Office
recognizes that, given the significant volume of refund requests resulting from the COVID-19 public
health emergency, processing refunds may take longer than normal and will determine the timeliness of
refund processing for ticket agents based on the totality of the circumstances, such as the volume of
incoming refund requests and steps taken to address the increased volume. Also, the Aviation
Enforcement Office will use its enforcement discretion and not take action against airlines for not
processing refunds within the required timeframes if, under the totality of the circumstances, they are
making good faith efforts to provide refunds in a timely manner.
May 13, 2020, 2:14 pm
#42
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Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
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just a note here, DOT issued a second enforcement notice
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%202020%29.pdf
a few points
good luck arguing what a "proper" refund means
and no 7-day-refund-rule for OTAs
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...%202020%29.pdf
a few points
good luck arguing what a "proper" refund means
and no 7-day-refund-rule for OTAs
The value of the DOT complaint, as most who use it have found, is that it is forwarded to the carrier with the requirement that the carrier respond to the passenger with a copy to DOT. That generates the refund.
May 13, 2020, 6:46 pm
#43
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,380
The sole purpose of a DOT complaint is to file one in conjunction with a chargeback and to thus speed one's refund. If DOT happened to bring an enforcement action against a carrier at some point, that won't affect your particular ticket.
The value of the DOT complaint, as most who use it have found, is that it is forwarded to the carrier with the requirement that the carrier respond to the passenger with a copy to DOT. That generates the refund.
The value of the DOT complaint, as most who use it have found, is that it is forwarded to the carrier with the requirement that the carrier respond to the passenger with a copy to DOT. That generates the refund.
the OTA was willing to provide refund minus service fees, if @k374 agrees.
not sure when k374 agreed (and if its delayed, then sure, file chargeback/DOT enforcement action)
i'm pointing out that the DOT enforcement notice clearly highlights that OTAs are not subject to 7-day-credit-card-refunds rule
also, DOT did not say "FULL" refund. they say "proper" refund. if they wanted to say full refund, they should have said it. is it proper to take out service fees? you can argue that on the DOT complaint
May 14, 2020, 10:20 pm
#44
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 661
I have a situation where the OTA is charging a service fee and the airline is refunding the full amount. I believe the OTA is NOT entitled to the fee. The OTA is charging me a 15% fee.
However, I am in the process of just not dealing with the whole thing if I get 85% of the ticket back. Although I vehemently disagree with this it just may not be worth my time to pursue it. In addition, I have been traveling for 25+ years and have taken hundreds of flights with many many different OTAs, never had a single issue until now... and now is a once in a generation problem of historic proportions so I guess, whatever! Best to move on.
However, I am in the process of just not dealing with the whole thing if I get 85% of the ticket back. Although I vehemently disagree with this it just may not be worth my time to pursue it. In addition, I have been traveling for 25+ years and have taken hundreds of flights with many many different OTAs, never had a single issue until now... and now is a once in a generation problem of historic proportions so I guess, whatever! Best to move on.