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Old Nov 11, 2014, 2:41 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: Xyzzy
Where does the KVS tool get its data and is KVS authorized to provide this data in the manner it is presented?

The tool is known to access a variety of web sites, many in a manner that is not authorized. Please see the next section of this Wiki for a list of sites believed to be accessed and their data access policies (where known).

Additionally, under some conditions the tool appears to access sites via a KVS-operated back end. This means that the tool is not just a 'web browser' that runs via a user's machine. No detailed public information is available about how this works or whether any of this back-end access is authorized.

Websites KVS Accesses and their relevant Terms of Use

http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...verrideServlet
http://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConlin...PreviewServlet
https://book.aircanada.com/pl/AConli...verrideServlet
https://www.aircanada.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/legal/notice.html
Use of our web site for any other purpose, including any commercial use or purpose, is expressly prohibited.
Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, you agree that, in using or accessing our website, you shall not commit or participate in any of the following acts or actions, each of which is expressly prohibited under this User Agreement:
directly or indirectly, use or access, or encourage, solicit, permit, facilitate, aid, assist or abet, including, but not limited to, the selling, licensing, distribution or provision to any person of any means that permit, the use or access, or agree to provide the use or access, of our website through any manual process or any automatic, electronic or technical device, including but not limited to automated scripts, robots, crawls, screen scrapers, web "bots", deep-links, indexes, spiders, click-spams, macro programs, or any other device, program, software, system, algorithm, methodology or technology, now known or hereinafter discovered, that performs the same or a similar function, in order to, without limitation: "data mine"; "screen scrape"; data process; access, extract, copy, distribute, aggregate or acquire information; generate impressions or clicks; input or store information; search or generate searches; or manipulate or monitor any portion or content of our website;

http://data.flight24.com/flights/
Terms of Use:
http://www.flightradar24.com/terms-and-conditions
Website’s information and Services are provided for personal, non-commercial use only. Permission is granted to temporarily download one copy of the materials (information or software) on Flightradar24’s web site for personal, non-commercial transitory viewing only. This is the grant of a license, not a transfer of title, and under this license you may not:

Modify or copy the materials;
Use the materials for any commercial purpose, or for any public display (commercial or non-commercial);
Attempt to decompile or reverse engineer any software contained on Flightradar24's web site;
Remove any copyright or other proprietary notations from the materials; or
Transfer the materials to another person or "mirror" the materials on any other server.

This license shall automatically terminate if you violate any of these restrictions and may be terminated by Flightradar24 at any time. Upon terminating your viewing of these materials or upon the termination of this license, you must destroy any downloaded materials in your possession whether in electronic or printed format.

http://data.seatexpert.com/tpi/find.php
Terms of Use:

http://plane.lan.com/cgi-bin/recibo_...bo_eticket.cgi
Terms of Use:
http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...-use/about-us/
You may use the information on our site solely for non-commercial purposes, and any use or modification of the website contents is not permitted.

http://reservations.usairways.com/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://reservations.usairways.com/en-US/aboutus/site_usage_policy.html
Content may be used for non-commercial personal use only, and you agree not to modify, copy, transmit, distribute, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, sell or otherwise transfer any information, software, products or services obtained from the Site without prior written permission from US Airways. You agree not to use any automatic device, manual process, or scraping to monitor or copy the Site or the content contained therein for any purpose without US Airways’ prior written permission. You agree not to use any device, software or routine to interfere with or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site.

https://book.austrian.com/app/fb.fly
Terms of Use:
http://www.austrian.com/Info/LegalRegulations/WebsiteTerms.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=AT
2. Proprietary rights
All trademark rights, copyrights, database rights and other intellectual property rights to the contents of the Austrian-website, (as well as the organization and layout of the website), together with the underlying software code rest, either with Austrian or with its licensors. You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Austrian-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Austrian.

3. Permissible use
All Austrian-website online services (including the booking machine) are provided solely for the purpose of enabling you to check the availability of goods or services relating to your journey (the timetable, for example), make legitimate reservations, use our online check-in or transact other business with suppliers. You may only use the website in accordance with these terms and conditions and for the legally permitted purposes described above. In particular, you indicate your agreement to the following:
...
3.5 You may not reproduce information from the Austrian-website for commercial purposes. This also includes providing prices for Austrian flights on another website or another online server. In particular you may not copy, distribute, in other way use or reproduce discarded content from the Austrian-website with the help of 'robots', other search machine technologies or through other automatic mechanisms.

https://booking.qatarairways.com/qri...Booking.action
Terms of Use:

https://book.tam.com.br/TAM/dyn/air/...ng/retrievePNR
Terms of Use:

https://classic.checkmytrip.com/plne...ievePNR.action
Terms of Use:
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://en.aegeanair.com
Terms of Use:

https://eservice.evaair.com
Terms of Use:

https://flymas.mobi/itravel/viewBooking.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://fly.rj.com/MyBookings/Home/EN/Default.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://skyvector.com/airport/
Terms of Use:

https://m.aeroflot.ru/b/info/pnr/load
Terms of Use:

https://mm.alitalia.com/GB_EN/booking/apvsearch.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://mobile1.emirates.com/myb/review.xhtml
Terms of Use:

https://myb.s7.ru/getMyBooking.action
Terms of Use:

https://mytripandmore.com/Itinerary.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://mytripandmore.com/TermsAndConditions.aspx
Except as expressly permitted by these Terms, you may not:
...
9. use any "robot", "spider" or other automatic device, software, program, algorithm, routine, methodology, or any manual process or functionality:
...to monitor, assemble, analyse, index, copy, transmit, distribute, transfer, or link to any of the pages, data, materials, or content available on the Site,

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWe...yICAOAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://prefunds.aa.com/refunds/receipt
https://www.aa.com/reservation/findReservationSubmit.do
Terms of Use:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/footer/siteUsage.jsp
Intellectual property notifications
...
D. American Airlines owns or uses by permission all software contained on the Site, including without limitation all HTML code and Active X controls. Copyright and other laws and international treaty provisions protect this software. The law expressly prohibits any modification, redistribution, or reproduction of the software, and such actions could result in severe civil and criminal penalties. American Airlines will seek and support prosecuting violators to the maximum extent possible.
E. You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of the Site for public or commercial purposes. Nothing on the Site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.
...
Limitations on your use:
You agree that you will not Misuse the Site. "Misuse" includes, but is not limited to, using the Site to do any of the following:
...
L. Copy or create derivative works from, display, distribute, license, perform, publish, recreate, reproduce, sell, transfer, or transmit any information, products, services, or software obtained by, from, or through the Site.
M. Monitor or copy any Content by using any manual process, or any robot, spider, or other automatic device, without first obtaining American Airlines' prior written consent.

https://raw.github.com/opentraveldat...i_airlines.csv
Terms of Use:

https://secure.jetairways.com/PlatformID/Identify.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://tickets.airtran.com/SeatAvailability.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.southwest.com/html/about-...ons/index.html
Prohibited Activities

You may not copy, display, distribute, download, license, modify, publish, re-post, reproduce, reuse, sell, transmit, use to create a derivative work, or otherwise use the content of this site for public or commercial purposes without our express written permission. Nothing on this site shall be construed to confer any grant or license of any intellectual property rights, whether by estoppel, by implication, or otherwise.

You may not modify, re-render, frame, mirror, truncate, add to, inject, filter or change the order of the information contained on any page of the Southwest Airlines sites, including, without limitation, by any way of reproducing Southwest Airlines or SWABiz® web pages or Company information on any other web site without our express written permission.

You may not copy, derive, edit, translate, decompile, reverse engineer, modify, use, or reproduce any code or source relating to our sites, including without limitation, any service or product Southwest offers.

You may not cause to appear any pop-up, pop-under, exit windows, expanding buttons, banners advertisement, or anything else which minimizes, covers, or otherwise inhibits the full display of the Southwest Airlines sites.

You may not use any deep-link, page-scrape, robot, crawl, index, spider, click spam, macro programs, Internet agent, or other automatic device, program, algorithm or methodology which does the same things, to use, access, copy, acquire information, generate impressions or clicks, input information, store information, search, generate searches, or monitor any portion of the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information.
...
You may not disguise the origin of information transmitted to, from, or through the Southwest Airlines sites. You may not circumvent any measures implemented by Southwest Airlines aimed at preventing violations of the Use Agreement. You may not violate the restrictions in any robot exclusion header.

When you use the Southwest Airlines sites or Company information for an authorized purpose, you must include all proprietary notices without changing, hiding or deleting them.

You may not engage in any conduct that is, or that Southwest Airlines deems to be, in violation of this Use Agreement.

https://wftc3.e-travel.com
Terms of Use:

https://wtrweb.worldtracer.aero/WorldTracerWeb/pax.do
Terms of Use:

https://www121.jal.co.jp/JmbWeb/JR/S...MileCalc_en.do
Terms of Use:

https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/ETDisplay.tk
https://www4.thy.com/mybookings/getPnr.tk
Terms of Use:

https://www.airberlin.com/en-DE/cockpit
Terms of Use:

https://www.airfrance.fr/cgi-bin/AF/...chPnrAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.alaskaair.com/booking/reservationlookup
Terms of Use:

https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
https://www.bookonline.saudiairlines...verride.action
Terms of Use:

https://www.britishairways.com/trave...g/public/en_gb
Terms of Use:

https://www.checkmytrip.com/CMTSERVLET
Terms of Use:
https://www.checkmytrip.com/cmt/apf/...&SITE=NCMTNCMT
3. Licence restrictions

3.1 Except as expressly set out in this EULA or as permitted by any local law, you agree:
...
(D) not to use any automated system or software to extract data from the Application, Documents or Services for commercial purposes (such as screen scraping);

https://www.delta.com/mytrips/findPnr.action
http://www.delta.com/ism/SeatMapDisplay.action
http://www.delta.com/shared/components/blank.jsp
Terms of Use:

https://www.finnair.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.flysas.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.iberia.com/web/retrievePNR.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.lot.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.lufthansa.com
Terms of Use:
http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...d=2016866&l=en

2. Proprietary rights
...You may not, either in whole or in part, copy, modify, distribute or use or reproduce in other form contents of the Lufthansa-website, or the underlying software code, without the prior written consent of Deutsche Lufthansa AG.
https://www.routehappy.com/
Terms of Use:

https://www.swiss.com
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripforyou.net/t4u/PTopAction.do
Terms of Use:

https://www.tripple.jp
Terms of Use:

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...n/default.aspx
Terms of Use:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/legal.aspx This website is for the User's personal, noncommercial use only. User agrees not to modify, copy, alter, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from this website without United’s prior written permission. User agrees not to use any robot, spider, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor or copy this website or the content contained therein or for any other unauthorized purpose without United’s prior written permission. ... United reserves the right to investigate any illegal and/or unauthorized use of this website, including, but not limited to, unauthorized framing of this website or unauthorized use of any robot, spider or other automated device, and to take appropriate legal action, including, without limitation, civil, criminal and injunctive redress.

https://www.viewtrip.com/GetItin.aspx
Terms of Use:

https://www.virginamerica.com/book/ow/a1/
Terms of Use:

https://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/g...ndBooking.next
Terms of Use:

https://www.virtuallythere.com/new/reservations.html
Terms of Use:

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/
Terms of Use:

http://worldaerodata.com/wad.cgi
Terms of Use:

http://www.airframes.org/fleet/
Terms of Use:

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...oking-now.html
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightradar24.com/
Terms of Use:

http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...ingByFlight.do
http://www.FlightStats.com/go/Flight...tusByFlight.do
Terms of Use:

http://www.flightview.com/TravelTool...eryResults.asp
http://www.flightview.com/TravelTools/viewairport.asp
Terms of Use:

http://www.gcmap.com/airport/
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui
Terms of Use:
http://www.gcmap.com/faq/using
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps on my web page?
A: You may use maps generated by the Great Circle Mapper on non-commercial web pages (q.v. commericial use below) so long as you do not profit from them and you include the following credit on pages which include maps:
...
Q: May I use the Great Circle Mapper's maps for commercial sites or publications?
A: Please write to Karl L. Swartz regarding terms for commercial use of the maps.

http://www.iata.org/about/members/Pa...line-list.aspx
Terms of Use:
http://www.iata.org/Pages/terms.aspx
2. Your Conduct

The content on this Site is for your personal use only within the organization or entity to which you are attached as applicable, and it is not intended for commercial exploitation unless expressly agreed in writing by IATA through a duly authorized representative. IATA authorizes you to download or reproduce selected materials at this Site only for your personal, non-commercial use, in the ordinary course of business provided that you retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained in the original materials on any copies of the materials and that the title or database brand name and IATA name is stated as the source.

You may not otherwise modify, disassemble, create derivative works, distribute, reproduce, publicly display, perform, transmit, re-transmit, sell, rent, sublicense, or otherwise use any materials or content on this Site for commercial or non-commercial exploitation by yourself or the organization or entity to which you are attached or permit third parties to so do. Without limitation, unlimited or wholesale reproduction, copying of the content for commercial or non-commercial purposes and unwarranted modification of data and information within the content is not permitted, and any use of these materials on any other website or networked computer environment for any purpose without IATA’s prior written consent is prohibited.
...
4. Intellectual Property Rights

...You must not modify, decompile, or reverse engineer any software IATA discloses to you via this Site, and you must not remove, overprint, or deface any notice of copyright, trademark, logo, legend, or other notice of ownership from any originals or copies of software or information from the website. "IATA Trademarks" means all names, marks, brands, URL names or addresses, logos, designs, trade dress and other designations IATA uses in connection with Products or Services. You are not permitted to incorporate any IATA Trademarks into any other trademarks, service marks, company names, Internet addresses, domain names, or any other similar designations. Any unauthorized use of any materials contained on this website may violate copyright laws, trademark laws, the laws of privacy and publicity, and communications regulations and statutes.

http://www.itn.net/cgi/get
Terms of Use:

http://www.kenya-airways.com/kqbook.aspx
Terms of Use:

http://www.myairlines.ru
Terms of Use:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/do/dyn/checkmytrip
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatexpert.com/multiple_results.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatguru.com/ajax/findseatmap.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatmaestro.com/airlines-...eckmytrip.html
http://www.seatmaestro.com/themes/de...te_airline.php
Terms of Use:

http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/Airline
http://www.seatplans.com/ajax/airports-and-city
http://www.seatplans.com/find-and-compare/
Terms of Use:
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KVS Availability Tool

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Old Nov 9, 2014, 2:23 pm
  #7606  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
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Originally Posted by harryhv
Time to redefine the KVS Availability Tool?
It is something that is being considered.

Originally Posted by harryhv
Are you going to publish an adjusted price list now that the key feature is gone?
We have made no upward adjustments when numerous new features/Methods have been added to the KVS Tool over the past 6+ years. Likewise, no downward adjustments are, generally, done when a particular feature/Method can no longer be supported for reasons that are beyond our control.

As another Member had previously noted:

Originally Posted by iantheglobetrotter
In my seventh year as a KVS user I am dismayed to read so many recent negative postings here about something that, for me, has long been a reliable and very useful tool.

What I’ve seen in that time is access methods come and go and lots of new features added while the price remained unchanged.
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 2:24 pm
  #7607  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,964
Originally Posted by nux
Is KVS a registered company in any country and/or does it have a registered address?
Presumably some people must have asked for the equivalent of a VAT number for wherever KVS pays tax on the licence fees?
angatol is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 2:38 pm
  #7608  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,635
Originally Posted by Air Rarotonga

KVS confirms that it's tool has no legal way to check availability...
To be fair, I don't see any user agreement on GTC (my corporate agency is GTC-powered) that prevents whatever it is KVS is doing.

Furthermore, the whole web/screen scraping argument....I don't think there is a legal definition of it if the best definition is from Wikipedia.

To KVS' point, it is a tool. The donor is the one using it. The donor is the one that has to register for a GTC account with/without permission from the host GTC agency.

However, KVS's argument that it is a "specialized" web browser is also flawed in that it obscure parts of the website and by using it, already puts the donor in violation of the site agreement.

For example, the timetable data is based of amadeus.net. 8.2 in the the Terms of Use states "You agree that you will not remove, obscure, make illegible or alter any notices or indications of the intellectual property rights and/or of Amadeus’ rights and ownership thereof."

A regular web browser will not remove the links to the Terms of Use. KVS Availability Tool does. And I don't think KVS can hide behind the "it's a tool argument" as this tool obscure the link to the Terms of Use to begin with limiting the donor's ability to make an informed decision on whether the underlying terms of use are being violated.

In my opinion, what is the most clear cut that KVS' action is criminal is that the person/company behind KVS implicitly encouraged donors to sign up for unauthorized GTC accounts by sending out the "how to obtain GTC account" email as "unauthorized access" is much more easily defined legally than web/screen scraping.

Last edited by seawolf; Nov 9, 2014 at 3:40 pm
seawolf is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 3:15 pm
  #7609  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
Flights stats is done currently. We can speculate as to why. A business decision nevertheless. When KVS web scrapped the website the images where not downloaded which means the advertisers were not paid. Draw your own conclusions.
Originally Posted by KVS
There is no need to speculate -- the actual reasons have been provided by their own representative and can be found in the corresponding thread.
Yes, very clear:
"We just released some enhancements to FlightStats.com including user interface improvements to the mobile site. We also removed Flight Availability. We fund the free tools on the site with advertisements and occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."

When the "KVS Tool" "Browsed" the Flightstats site, no advertisements were opened. They funded the free tools with advertisement revenue (see above). The "KVS Tool" prevented any of this revenue from being generated while retrieving data as none of the advertisements loaded.

Try denying that. It is very clear what has happened.
zozeppelin is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 5:14 pm
  #7610  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MAN/BHX
Programs: ABBA
Posts: 6,027
Originally Posted by seawolf
To be fair, I don't see any user agreement on GTC (my corporate agency is GTC-powered) that prevents whatever it is KVS is doing.
Originally Posted by eyancy
The creation of an account to be used for “screen scrapping” or other methods of automated data collection using the GetThere booking tool is strictly forbidden. Any entity that has created an account for this purpose should stop doing so immediately.

Eric Yancy,
Information Security Officer, GetThere
paulwuk is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 5:59 pm
  #7611  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
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Originally Posted by zozeppelin
Yes, very clear:
The actual reason states that they

Originally Posted by zozeppelin
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."
We see no need to add speculative suggestions to the actual reason that has been articulated by their official representative.

Originally Posted by zozeppelin
as none of the advertisements loaded.
Most KVS Tool Users also have ....... (or similar extension) installed in their regular web browsers, so they would not see advertisements regardless of which browser they are using.

Originally Posted by zozeppelin
It is very clear what has happened.
Indeed.
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 6:03 pm
  #7612  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by KVS
The actual reason states that they



We see no need to add speculative suggestions to the actual reason that has been articulated by their official representative.


Most KVS Tool Users also have ....... (or similar extension) installed in their regular web browsers, so they would not see advertisements regardless of which browser they are using.


Indeed.

I feel dirty even using this as a reference (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....n-use-instead/) but a third party "well established blogger" says otherwise:

"So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation."
zozeppelin is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 6:28 pm
  #7613  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YYZ at this time
Programs: ACMM / Altitude S100K / HH Diamond
Posts: 6,285
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
I feel dirty even using this as a reference (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....n-use-instead/) but a third party "well established blogger" says otherwise:

"So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation."
Interesting blog post - I had missed that - thanks for posting!

Some interesting quotes from the blogger and the comments in the blog

For that reason I find Expertflyer, the pay service, to be indispensable. Expertflyer shows flight availability just like FlightStats did, plus it includes American Airlines and has ‘special classes’ for American that I cannot access anywhere else (like American’s “C” inventory which is upgrades for a paid ticket from economy to business class).
and

Steve said,

I’d go so far and put the blame on kvs. They have been scraping the information from flightstats for their flight availability tool and flightstats didn’t agree with this.
A simple user request on flightats own website does not create heavy costs for flightstats, but screenscraping without showing any ads was really bad on the pocket or flightstats.
PreferBulkhead is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 6:46 pm
  #7614  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Yes, but let's ignore all of that noise and just focus on :
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."



Sometimes I think this guy would be better off writing political commercials than programming.
zozeppelin is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 7:32 pm
  #7615  
KVS
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Arrow

Originally Posted by zozeppelin
I feel dirty even using this as a reference
Gary is, in fact, a well-established blogger and we find your characterization to be inappropriate.

Originally Posted by zozeppelin
"So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation."
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."
His explanation is, actually, consistent with the explanation, provided by the representative in that the decision was driven by [insufficient] "customer demand"/"use" of the non-core feature in question.

Originally Posted by PreferBulkhead
Some interesting quotes from the blogger and the comments in the blog
In contrast, a comment by an anonymous poster "Steve" is speculative and baseless.
KVS is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 8:21 pm
  #7616  
Original Member
 
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,635
Originally Posted by paulwuk
Quote:





Originally Posted by seawolf


To be fair, I don't see any user agreement on GTC (my corporate agency is GTC-powered) that prevents whatever it is KVS is doing.





Quote:





Originally Posted by eyancy


The creation of an account to be used for “screen scrapping” or other methods of automated data collection using the GetThere booking tool is strictly forbidden. Any entity that has created an account for this purpose should stop doing so immediately.

Eric Yancy,
Information Security Officer, GetThere



That user has 1 and only 1 post. Let's say for the moment Eric is who he claims he is. That doesn't change what I'm seeing on the agency booking login or main page after login. There is no terms of use/user agreement etc.

Hard for me to accept an unpublished user agreement. Eric's comment also illustrates that KVS "passed" on the "user agreement violation" to the donor as KVS didn't create any GTC accounts. He merely provided instructions to the donors.

KVS should stop hiding behind his "specialized" web browser defense as we all know it if not. Instead he should just call it what it is. A travel tool that presents data from 3rd party sites in a layout/format inconsistent with the 3rd party sites' intent and put a clear warning that by using this tool, the donor is possibly violating the terms of use on some of those sites.
seawolf is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2014, 8:30 pm
  #7617  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by seawolf
That user has 1 and only 1 post. Let's say for the moment Eric is who he claims he is. That doesn't change what I'm seeing on the agency booking login or main page after login. There is no terms of use/user agreement etc.

Hard for me to accept an unpublished user agreement. Eric's comment also illustrates that KVS "passed" on the "user agreement violation" to the donor as KVS didn't create any GTC accounts. He merely provided instructions to the donors.

KVS should stop hiding behind his "specialized" web browser defense as we all know it if not. Instead he should just call it what it is. A travel tool that presents data from 3rd party sites in a layout/format inconsistent with the 3rd party sites' intent and put a clear warning that by using this tool, the donor is possibly violating the terms of use on some of those sites.

Yep. All I want is transparency and functionality. Today we have neither.

Anyone can currently find their own award availability using the well publicized friendly alliance partners (BA, QF, ANA, etc).

I really found the fares and availability useful and efficient, this is why I paid for the tool. Now neither of those are working adequately in my perspective. Nor is there any communication regarding these issues being resolved. Instead we have smoke and mirrors trying to salvage the integrity of the tool.
zozeppelin is offline  
Old Nov 10, 2014, 8:05 am
  #7618  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MAN/BHX
Programs: ABBA
Posts: 6,027
Why doesn't KVS just pay for access to the GDS like legitimate data tools, and deliver the core part of KVS Availability Tool to it's customers?
paulwuk is offline  
Old Nov 10, 2014, 8:32 am
  #7619  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by paulwuk
Why doesn't KVS just pay for access to the GDS like legitimate data tools, and deliver the core part of KVS Availability Tool to it's customers?
Exactly, I think everyone would be very happy with this solution (assuming it isn't velocity limited), even if they had to pay more. Or maybe make a second version so those that like what they have (and the inherent risk and price point) can stick with that.

I'll speculate that it has to do with $. Consider you have a GUI developed for 10+ years with minimal maintenance and no overhead requirement (server hardware and bandwidth) since the searches go user->www. Now if he provides GDS service, that will require not only paying for GDS but also paying to accommodate the searches all route to him (server hardware + bandwidth). The current 60 second blackout between routing rules searches that route to KVS server is not acceptable in my opinion. Having that carry over to Fare/Availability would be even worse. The key value of KVS is consolidated searches (efficient). Having to wait 60 seconds you might as well pay for EF because it is faster and reliable.

But again, instead of fixing the issues or making new solutions, all we get is PR coverup and misdirection here.
zozeppelin is offline  
Old Nov 10, 2014, 11:26 am
  #7620  
KVS
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Originally Posted by zozeppelin
Exactly, I think everyone would be very happy with this solution (assuming it isn't velocity limited), even if they had to pay more. Or maybe make a second version so those that like what they have (and the inherent risk and price point) can stick with that.
It is something that is being considered, but not something that is immediately feasible to implement.
KVS is offline  


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