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Originally Posted by harryhv
(Post 23813637)
Time to redefine the KVS
Originally Posted by harryhv
(Post 23813637)
Are you going to publish an adjusted price list now that the key feature is gone?
As another Member had previously noted:
Originally Posted by iantheglobetrotter
(Post 23709350)
In my seventh year as a KVS user I am dismayed to read so many recent negative postings here about something that, for me, has long been a reliable and very useful tool.
What I’ve seen in that time is access methods come and go and lots of new features added while the price remained unchanged. |
Originally Posted by nux
(Post 23815898)
Is KVS a registered company in any country and/or does it have a registered address?
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Originally Posted by Air Rarotonga
(Post 23816049)
KVS confirms that it's tool has no legal way to check availability... Furthermore, the whole web/screen scraping argument....I don't think there is a legal definition of it if the best definition is from Wikipedia. To KVS' point, it is a tool. The donor is the one using it. The donor is the one that has to register for a GTC account with/without permission from the host GTC agency. However, KVS's argument that it is a "specialized" web browser is also flawed in that it obscure parts of the website and by using it, already puts the donor in violation of the site agreement. For example, the timetable data is based of amadeus.net. 8.2 in the the Terms of Use states "You agree that you will not remove, obscure, make illegible or alter any notices or indications of the intellectual property rights and/or of Amadeus’ rights and ownership thereof." A regular web browser will not remove the links to the Terms of Use. KVS Availability Tool does. And I don't think KVS can hide behind the "it's a tool argument" as this tool obscure the link to the Terms of Use to begin with limiting the donor's ability to make an informed decision on whether the underlying terms of use are being violated. In my opinion, what is the most clear cut that KVS' action is criminal is that the person/company behind KVS implicitly encouraged donors to sign up for unauthorized GTC accounts by sending out the "how to obtain GTC account" email as "unauthorized access" is much more easily defined legally than web/screen scraping. |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23815105)
Flights stats is done currently. We can speculate as to why. A business decision nevertheless. When KVS web scrapped the website the images where not downloaded which means the advertisers were not paid. Draw your own conclusions.
Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 23815994)
There is no need to speculate -- the actual reasons have been provided by their own representative and can be found in the corresponding thread.
"We just released some enhancements to FlightStats.com including user interface improvements to the mobile site. We also removed Flight Availability. We fund the free tools on the site with advertisements and occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand." When the "KVS Tool" "Browsed" the Flightstats site, no advertisements were opened. They funded the free tools with advertisement revenue (see above). The "KVS Tool" prevented any of this revenue from being generated while retrieving data as none of the advertisements loaded. Try denying that. It is very clear what has happened. |
Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 23816121)
To be fair, I don't see any user agreement on GTC (my corporate agency is GTC-powered) that prevents whatever it is KVS is doing.
Originally Posted by eyancy
(Post 23745267)
The creation of an account to be used for “screen scrapping” or other methods of automated data collection using the GetThere booking tool is strictly forbidden. Any entity that has created an account for this purpose should stop doing so immediately.
Eric Yancy, Information Security Officer, GetThere |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816304)
Yes, very clear:
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816304)
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816304)
as none of the advertisements loaded.
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816304)
It is very clear what has happened.
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Originally Posted by KVS
(Post 23816917)
The actual reason states that they
We see no need to add speculative suggestions to the actual reason that has been articulated by their official representative. Most KVS Tool Users also have ....... (or similar extension) installed in their regular web browsers, so they would not see advertisements regardless of which browser they are using. Indeed. I feel dirty even using this as a reference (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....n-use-instead/) but a third party "well established blogger" says otherwise: "So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation." |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816927)
I feel dirty even using this as a reference (http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....n-use-instead/) but a third party "well established blogger" says otherwise:
"So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation." Some interesting quotes from the blogger and the comments in the blog For that reason I find Expertflyer, the pay service, to be indispensable. Expertflyer shows flight availability just like FlightStats did, plus it includes American Airlines and has ‘special classes’ for American that I cannot access anywhere else (like American’s “C” inventory which is upgrades for a paid ticket from economy to business class). Steve said, I’d go so far and put the blame on kvs. They have been scraping the information from flightstats for their flight availability tool and flightstats didn’t agree with this. A simple user request on flightats own website does not create heavy costs for flightstats, but screenscraping without showing any ads was really bad on the pocket or flightstats. |
Yes, but let's ignore all of that noise and just focus on :
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand." :) Sometimes I think this guy would be better off writing political commercials than programming. |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816927)
I feel dirty even using this as a reference
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816927)
"So they decided it was too costly for them to support given its use, at least that’s their explanation."
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23816304)
"occasionally add/remove features based on customer demand."
Originally Posted by PreferBulkhead
(Post 23817004)
Some interesting quotes from the blogger and the comments in the blog
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Originally Posted by paulwuk
(Post 23816747)
Quote:
Originally Posted by seawolf To be fair, I don't see any user agreement on GTC (my corporate agency is GTC-powered) that prevents whatever it is KVS is doing. Quote: Originally Posted by eyancy The creation of an account to be used for “screen scrapping” or other methods of automated data collection using the GetThere booking tool is strictly forbidden. Any entity that has created an account for this purpose should stop doing so immediately. Eric Yancy, Information Security Officer, GetThere Hard for me to accept an unpublished user agreement. Eric's comment also illustrates that KVS "passed" on the "user agreement violation" to the donor as KVS didn't create any GTC accounts. He merely provided instructions to the donors. KVS should stop hiding behind his "specialized" web browser defense as we all know it if not. Instead he should just call it what it is. A travel tool that presents data from 3rd party sites in a layout/format inconsistent with the 3rd party sites' intent and put a clear warning that by using this tool, the donor is possibly violating the terms of use on some of those sites. |
Originally Posted by seawolf
(Post 23817398)
That user has 1 and only 1 post. Let's say for the moment Eric is who he claims he is. That doesn't change what I'm seeing on the agency booking login or main page after login. There is no terms of use/user agreement etc.
Hard for me to accept an unpublished user agreement. Eric's comment also illustrates that KVS "passed" on the "user agreement violation" to the donor as KVS didn't create any GTC accounts. He merely provided instructions to the donors. KVS should stop hiding behind his "specialized" web browser defense as we all know it if not. Instead he should just call it what it is. A travel tool that presents data from 3rd party sites in a layout/format inconsistent with the 3rd party sites' intent and put a clear warning that by using this tool, the donor is possibly violating the terms of use on some of those sites. Yep. All I want is transparency and functionality. Today we have neither. Anyone can currently find their own award availability using the well publicized friendly alliance partners (BA, QF, ANA, etc). I really found the fares and availability useful and efficient, this is why I paid for the tool. Now neither of those are working adequately in my perspective. Nor is there any communication regarding these issues being resolved. Instead we have smoke and mirrors trying to salvage the integrity of the tool. |
Why doesn't KVS just pay for access to the GDS like legitimate data tools, and deliver the core part of KVS Availability Tool to it's customers?
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Originally Posted by paulwuk
(Post 23819209)
Why doesn't KVS just pay for access to the GDS like legitimate data tools, and deliver the core part of KVS Availability Tool to it's customers?
I'll speculate that it has to do with $. Consider you have a GUI developed for 10+ years with minimal maintenance and no overhead requirement (server hardware and bandwidth) since the searches go user->www. Now if he provides GDS service, that will require not only paying for GDS but also paying to accommodate the searches all route to him (server hardware + bandwidth). The current 60 second blackout between routing rules searches that route to KVS server is not acceptable in my opinion. Having that carry over to Fare/Availability would be even worse. The key value of KVS is consolidated searches (efficient). Having to wait 60 seconds you might as well pay for EF because it is faster and reliable. But again, instead of fixing the issues or making new solutions, all we get is PR coverup and misdirection here. |
Originally Posted by zozeppelin
(Post 23819339)
Exactly, I think everyone would be very happy with this solution (assuming it isn't velocity limited), even if they had to pay more. Or maybe make a second version so those that like what they have (and the inherent risk and price point) can stick with that.
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