KVS initiated a pro-rated refund of my subscription (had 8 months left on it). I didn’t ask for a refund; KVS unilaterally refunded it. I will post when refund actually is posted.

In my opinion, KVS needs to do a better job on communications. Many of the activity in this thread for the past several weeks could have all been avoided had KVS provided clear communications addressing donor concerns when FS pulled the plug.

At that point in time, KVS had a choice of various courses of action including but not limited to the following.

1. We’re sorry email but availability is no longer available. Here’s a pro-rated refund/extension.
2. We’re sorry email but availability is no longer available but here’s a roadmap on what we’re doing to restore that functionality or provide an alternative and when to expect that.
3. KVS sets up GTC account(s) and route all availability request thru those account(s). Donor-base wouldn’t be any wiser as to where the data came from or whether it was legal or not.
4. KVS provide instructions on how to obtain illegitimate GTC account have donor take on legal risk of unauthorized access.

Out of these four choices, KVS picks the worst possible option and by doing so:

• Insults the intelligence of its donors
• Shows KVS do not care/do not understand why donors are using KVS Availability Tool to begin with.

Had KVS proceeded with any of the first three options, I don’t think this thread would have gotten as much attention as it had recently and KVS would have kept the goodwill and reputation of being quick to respond to donor concerns.

You are not authorized to provide answers on our behalf.

The restriction regarding Regular Availability is actually noted on the Membership page, which is a part of the renewal process.

Our response has been sent to you via e-mail, as originally requested.

1. Yes, as a Web Browser, KVS Tool is authorized to display web page data in a format that it supports and that is most convenient for its users.
   
   
2. The short and practical answer is 'no'.
   However, if this is a legal question, it should be referred to one's own legal professional.

This response is laughable.

People are certainly willing to pay for convenience, thus the value in your application.

The problem, however, appears to be that the data that it provides may be obtained in violation of the ToS of various third party websites. But, the problems don't stop there. If what I read here is factually correct, you have also encouraged, directed, and assisted your customers to obtain access to yet another third party site in an illegal, or, at the very least, highly unethical way.

While doing all of this, you are attempting to hide. You don't provide any information on the name or address of your business. Further, the website is registered to a postal box on a tiny, very remote, island. You are likely doing this to make it as difficult as possible for legitimate businesses, the businesses whose ToS you violate, to serve you with a cease and desist (when they do want to find you, to serve you with a lawsuit, they will). Or perhaps you are, like any hacker, actually operating from some essentially lawless land?

The problem is, cowering in the shadows cuts both ways: you can't both hide and enforce your "user agreement." Under what jurisdiction's laws are the terms of this agreement construed?

If what I have read here is correct: that you have directed others to access a third party site in an unethical or illegal manner, that your application accesses, or uses methods or means, in violation of third party ToS, or that you fail to provide a business name and address, it is amazing to me that FT allows you to continue posting and marketing your product here. That, honestly, says as much about FT as it does you.

How can you claim ANY of the above when the sites your tool 'browses' have terms of service like this? (emphasis added):
Quite a few of the sites that are being accessed by the tool have such provisions in their terms :eek:f service. To say "The short and practical answer is 'no'" when asked whether users might be opening themselves up to liability is really doing your customers a disservice. United, for example, states that it

GTC shut down?
 

Doing an availability search just now, I get this:

Data Source Error [L2W]:

"The User Name and Password you entered are not recognized. The system is unable to find an account for the User Name and Password you entered. Please verify your information and try again."


Does that mean that the GTC gig is up then? I had managed to get a GTC account while that was still possible (though didn't feel very comfortable with it, and told KVS that too), but now it seems that door may have been closed too.

So, domestic fares (which apparently includes Canada-US) are down, international fares only work on a limited basis, and availability only works through the MC? This keeps getting better by the day.

Our answers have been provided for the benefit of the OP and other KVS Tool Members in good standing.

Please contact us via http://Contact.KVSTool.com/

Unfortunately, it is a limitation of the [Fares/GOL] Engine.

Personally I like how the KVS tool (why is it called tool and not browser?) makes it very easy to get information from different website without needing to remember all the steps to get to that information.
With the data sources drying up the tool is becoming much less useful now than it was when I signed up for it.
I hope that KVS will just give all subscribers to the tool either a partial refund or just extend their membership period significantly without extra charge. I know that there is most likely no legal requirement to do that, but with the downward spiral KVS is in now (at least in the opinion of most members of this board and at leat partially self inflicted) some positive step would be timely.

Same here. Perhaps FAU or GTC has gone through and terminated accounts?

KVS, any insight here?

This is a public forum. Should you wish to interact solely with people who 'c;)ntribute' to you feel free to start a forum on your own site.

You had ample opportunity to answer the very basic questions posed to you. My answers were provided as a public service and as a warning to all that they are breaking the TOS of a variety of sites (and they don't even know exactly which sites those are) and possibly opening themselves up to legal liability by use of your 'tool'. Use of a 'specialized browser' is actually specifically prohibited. I posted based on the language posted on the wiki above -- and the language on a variety of other sites as well as on the information contained within this thread. Should you have specific information to the contrary please let us know.

Yup, that hack is dead... someone probably cross referenced all these newly created accounts with names of people who were actually authorized to sign up with that particular code and poof. Gone... was only a matter of time.

I think you're just digging yourself into a hole with those kinds of answers. The answers are more likely to be "No" and "Yes" in that order, especially for the data feeds that are getting cut off. But there is little possibility of us as end users getting hit with a suit for either breach of terms of use or the CFAA (I don't believe I've seen it referenced in the thread yet, but it's relevant). That may not be the case for the entity that is actually creating, operating and profiting (call it a contribution, a membership fee, a subscription, I'm not sure the distinction would matter) from the tool/browser (again I'm not sure it actually matters what you call it). The more I've come to understand how some aspects of the tool/browser works, the less comfortable I am with it.

I think your direction or suggestion for users to sign up for GTC accounts was a huge mistake, and while the other providers who have plugged up leaky data feeds may have been content to just plug the leak, I now have my doubts that will be the case with the creation of GTC accounts, especially if there were a sufficiently large number of them. Those accounts being cancelled today may be only the first shoe to drop.

And we did.

That is not how we or most of our Members would describe them.

Please contact us via http://Contact.KVSTool.com/

We are glad you are enjoying the convenience of the KVS Tool.

We are currently considering a number of options, based on our Members' feedback. In the meantime, requests of this nature are being handled on a case-by-case basis.

To update, my account has been restored after providing context to some posts and redacting others where there was disagreement on source.

I still would like to know:
1) What is the outlook on fares? Is a new method being investigated that will support domestic fares and less constraint with fare rules regarding search date? Target date?

2) What is the outlook on availability? Is this feature going to be restored in KVS Tool? Target date?

[redacted] you may be waiting a long time for a reply.

[redacted] I found this whole issue with a business being allowed to promote their product on this forum while at the same time revoking membership for those who posted negative items here in this thread to be nothing short of despicable. (ie. attempting to censor members via the threat and actual action of revoking a service already paid for).

It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I didn't even want to participate in the FT forum anymore, but being it looks to be cleared up, hopefully everyone can get on with our normal flying topics now.

Ladies and Gentlemen,
a quick reminder that comment on moderation and fellow members is a no-no as per FT rules. Please stick to the topic.

Regards Oliver2002
Senior Mod