I'm not sure where to post this, it might be here or OMNI. Today I called Intuit tech support (which has just gone up to $400 a year) to get the answer to a simple question which is not in the documentation. What should have been a simple process turned into an epic and after 20 minutes I hung up in frustration. My sense is what seemed like a simple financial solution for tech companies has turned into a cultural abyss for consumers.

For my part, I don't care if the India based technicians speak flawless English or have been given Aglicised names like Bill or Susan. I want them to be intuitive problem solvers and help me to resolve my problem as fast as humanly possible.This seems to go against the grain of Indian culture as I understand and have experienced it.

I'm wondering what sort of experiences other FT's have had with India based tech support both positive and negative and whether you think this phenomenom is here to stay?

I have worked with Indian companies in the past in joint ventures, and recently I had several consumer routers that I purchased and had to get support on, from India.

They are very systematic and process driven. You will not get "intuitive problem solving" from them. Not that Indians aren't capable of it -- but that the way the Indian firms are run, and their advantage really, is that they are fairly rigid in their processes, but they are also very good at those processes.

They can train a large number of skilled people to do a reasonable job solving technical problems. That is not easy.

The compromise is that all the creativity and intuition is squeezed out -- so if your problem isn't in the process flow chart, you can't expect an answer. If the designers of the process overlooked the answer, you won't get it.

OTOH, they are 24/7 and they are pretty smart. They haven't yet been able to help me but they weren't stupid and were patient and did understand my problem.

Never been worth the time of day .. as soon as I hear the call redirect it's time to hang up. BT, BA .. potentially more looking to this route in the UK and it just does not work for anything but the most simple of issues.

You might as well be talking to a computer. After wasting my share of time with Indian agents, I usually ask to be transfered to US support the minute the agent picks up the phone.

I know from my company and my wife, that this is very common. In fact my wife is heading over to India this fall to do research on the topic for her company. Not just tech support calls, but many of the major financial institutions and credit card companies are taking advantage of this labor pool. I've been told they get a daily cheat sheet for the part of the country they are taking calls for that tell them current climate, sporting scores, or any of the other items the caller may bring up in small talk. Programming is also another big market for India, with very fast response time and accuracy.

How can anyone ever support a product they have never seen, or are unlikely ever TO see. It's all based on knowledge management systems, script based problem solving and many, many screenshots. No disrespect for these people but it's simply not possible to solve a problem without even the basic hands-on experience with using it.

FWIW, when I called AmEx about my account, I was redirected to their call center in India. It's not limited to the tech field by any means. . .

I don't see what the fuss is about... we get crummy level one tech support from US agents... why state that Indian agents are the issue. In general tier 1 tech support or tier 1 customer service agents are the issue... COMPANIES choose to dumb down their service, not the people answering the phone(s)

They are the issue. I just bought an Apple Powerbook with 90 day tech support and the service has been, intuitive, American based, and exceptional. If the tech support had been Indian based I might still be looking to the simplest answers to my non-documented questions. As mentioned in an early post, the Indian system develops non-intuitive thinkers. Obviously most companies want to provide the bare minimum of tech support and make it difficult to receive that. But the tech support I paid $400 for was not level one support and was based in India.

I think that the issue is also the AMOUNT of different products these people need to support, a typical call center agent in India will support over 20 different products, the only way to know what the job will be is what the phone display says when it rings. In the US most call center staff support a single (group or brand or) product. Companies like Sykes will train their agents for that specific product. PC support also requires basic PC/Windows knowledge, something many Indian agents seem to lack.

Scott... We've used Skyes before and have had good results... however just as you state their ARE good call center services and horrendous ones.

I wouldn't basket "India and China" outsourced services as "crap"... what I would label is that they give the chance for companies to penny pinch - give the impression they are saving money - provide junk support... all while blaming the call center country.

NOT ALL call centers/outsourcing companies run like this. There are quality Indian call centers that are similar quality to Skyes, but most companies would rather penny pinch some more and use the call centers that are cheaper and AREN'T training agents on specific products.

Wow. The amount of subtle and overt racism contained in this discussion is quite amazing. For the last five years, I've been traveling to India frequently, had extensive dealings with the companies that run call centers there, and worked closely with Indian employees of many financial and IT firms. In no instance would I characterize these people as lacking in "intuitive problem solving" skills. Contrary to what appears to be public opinion here, India's 1+ billion population has a lot more entrepreneurial, creative, energetic individuals than any country I know.

In sharp contrast to employees in the US, Indian call center staffers tend to be well educated and highly motivated. A call center job in India pays well and offers a superior work environment to many other options open to Indian college graduates. As such, competition for these positions is substantial. Compare that to the motivation and education level of some $6.50-per-hour employee in Tulsa. Who do you think is better equipped to solve complex problems?

I for one have found that the move to staff call centers with Indian employees has improved, not downgraded, the customer service experience. In fact, one situation I had last year illustrated this neatly: I had a severe computer problem that led me to spend several hours on the phone with tech support from Dell (in Bangalore) and Verizon (in the US). The Verizon staffer was more interested in getting me off the phone than actually solving my problem, telling me several times that "oh, you'll have to call Microsoft/Dell/XXX to fix that." In complete contrast, the Indian-based Dell staffer was immeasurably more creative and helpful. In fact, he went so far as to offer and follow through with a call back to me after I had spent another hour on the phone with Verizon. This person was so good that for the first time in my life, I went so far as to write a letter to Dell commending him. When's the last time a low-paid, ill-trained, gum-chewing American call center employee made you feel that positive?

So, we voice OUR honest opinions and experiences with Indian call centers and we are called racists, so then you go ahead and post this:

Great way of joining the discussion. You may have noticed that several of the people in this discussion are very closely linked to the call center business themselves or have actually, just like yourself had real time experience in working setting up a call center there. It's all about opinion and experience.

Dell is a good example of how it CAN be done but don't base your opinion on just ONE agent. Every call center has it's ace agents.

Right on, Nick.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

You all mean to tell me that not one of you have ever dealt with American customer/technical "service" agents who unintuitive, unanalytical, uninformed, rigid, go-by-the-script, stubborn, recalcitrant, just plain watching-the-clock dumb?

Excuse me, but isn't that what half of the rants on the airline forums are about???

When it comes down to it, Americans really are the worst of the lot when you consider all the privilege and opportunity they have to excel, yet settle in their mediocrity, wasting their time and energy on bashing others instead of improving themselves.

OK, I'll recant the "gum-chewing" part. The rest stands.

Thank you, Jim Phillips. My feelings exactly.