THAI: News
Oct 19, 2018, 2:34 am
#271
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It seems from the google translated report that there were J seats spare, but the deadhead pilots did not want those, citing upcoming duty. (For casual THAI thread readers, the 747's J seats are angle flat, and the F seats are properly flat.)
Two pax in the end moved to a J seat to allow the deadheads the lie-flat F seat and the flight to finally get going.
This suggests that whilst poorly handled on-board, the pax could not really complain about being moved to a J seat.
Two pax in the end moved to a J seat to allow the deadheads the lie-flat F seat and the flight to finally get going.
This suggests that whilst poorly handled on-board, the pax could not really complain about being moved to a J seat.
According to the Thai Airways Flight TG971 Zurich-Suvarnabhumi on October 11, over two and half hours delayed the cause. The pilot refuses to bring the machine up. The Deadhead pilots did not sit in the business class as they wanted. More than 300 passengers sit and wait until the last couple of passengers. The business class is reserved. I have to give up my reservation. THAI issued a statement. For the TGF 971 Zurich-Bangkok Flight Appeal, and to set up a fact-finding committee.
'Fly thai' apologies - test order The pilots will not fly until they get the seat they want.
Most recently, Facebook users shared a message about the story. The reason that THAI has to apologize. This may involve the following passengers:
I'm sorry to hear about your flight. Flight TG971 (ZRH - BKK) is scheduled to depart from Zurich, Switzerland at 13.30 CEST, but has been declared dead on the ground. There is no clear flight schedule. Until 15.00 CEST, the ground staff announced us and husband talk. The problem of delay of this flight. This flight was informed that there were 4 pilots who wanted to take the plane back to Thailand and that the pilot needed seats in which we and our husband had made reservations for 1K, 2K is why the ground staff asked us to change seats to sit elsewhere. I do not want to be a passenger.
We were told that if we did not change the deadhead pilot, the On duty pilot would not fly. We will need to make a decision at that time to allow us to change seats booked from the beginning of the ticket. We know that if we do not allow seats, there will be a delay. Also sympathetic to other passengers suffered. On this flight, just like us.
From this incident, we were surprised by the performance of the pilot group. Deadhead pilot and On duty pilot who should be the service provider. But it is not the mind of a passenger, as a hostage, in exchange for his own needs. The business class seats are also available in many places just not meet their needs. All of this is internal to your organization's management. You should not bring these problems to the passengers who are wasting their time. Time to lose many hours worth many. We do not get this action.
We know that there are many regulations to support the pilot, because the pilot is responsible for the lives of many passengers. But man is a creature that can distort the rules. The most beneficial to self. I do not know what to think, but there is a gap for the self to benefit themselves. We hope that this type of people is only a fraction of the organization. Most people would love the organization and take into account the benefits of the organization. Really? I never complained about this.
'Fly thai' apologies - test order The pilots will not fly until they get the seat they want.
Most recently, Facebook users shared a message about the story. The reason that THAI has to apologize. This may involve the following passengers:
I'm sorry to hear about your flight. Flight TG971 (ZRH - BKK) is scheduled to depart from Zurich, Switzerland at 13.30 CEST, but has been declared dead on the ground. There is no clear flight schedule. Until 15.00 CEST, the ground staff announced us and husband talk. The problem of delay of this flight. This flight was informed that there were 4 pilots who wanted to take the plane back to Thailand and that the pilot needed seats in which we and our husband had made reservations for 1K, 2K is why the ground staff asked us to change seats to sit elsewhere. I do not want to be a passenger.
We were told that if we did not change the deadhead pilot, the On duty pilot would not fly. We will need to make a decision at that time to allow us to change seats booked from the beginning of the ticket. We know that if we do not allow seats, there will be a delay. Also sympathetic to other passengers suffered. On this flight, just like us.
From this incident, we were surprised by the performance of the pilot group. Deadhead pilot and On duty pilot who should be the service provider. But it is not the mind of a passenger, as a hostage, in exchange for his own needs. The business class seats are also available in many places just not meet their needs. All of this is internal to your organization's management. You should not bring these problems to the passengers who are wasting their time. Time to lose many hours worth many. We do not get this action.
We know that there are many regulations to support the pilot, because the pilot is responsible for the lives of many passengers. But man is a creature that can distort the rules. The most beneficial to self. I do not know what to think, but there is a gap for the self to benefit themselves. We hope that this type of people is only a fraction of the organization. Most people would love the organization and take into account the benefits of the organization. Really? I never complained about this.
Oct 19, 2018, 2:52 am
#272
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More info. It seems from the following article (again google translated) that THAI has a policy for deadhead crew to have seats on the Upper Deck, or at least in this case the deadhead crew were allocated 16A/B/J/K.
The Pilot in Command appears to have made a summary decision to not comply with this allocation, presumably company procedure, and placed the 2 senior pilots (2FC) in F seats, living the 2 junior pilots (2FP) in 16 J/K.
Image of the internal memo: https://d1in1v57myx5v.cloudfront.net...010860903.JPEG
Credit article: https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/.../9610000104381
The Pilot in Command appears to have made a summary decision to not comply with this allocation, presumably company procedure, and placed the 2 senior pilots (2FC) in F seats, living the 2 junior pilots (2FP) in 16 J/K.
Check out the website. flightradar24.com On 11 October 2018, TG971 flight B747-400 (HS-TGZ) was delayed. Scheduled Time of Departure (STD) at 13:30, but actual departure (Departure Time) at 15:59 hrs, or delay of almost two and half hours. As a result, the flight to Suvarnabhumi Airport was delayed by an hour and a half.
On the same day, on October 12, 2018, THAI filed a report requesting that the B747 / A380 Flight Deck Passive Crew be deployed to operate a 2-class concept.
"Due to the flight case. TG971 / 11OCT / ZRH-BKK 49C 325Y, B777-300ER Config. 42C 306Y, due to the B777 and B747 airplane changes, resulting in Passive Crew 2FC and 2FP. Please refer to the Flight Crew Standard Passage Crew's Seat for Passenger Crew and Passive Crew Summer 2018 which determines the 24AB / EF seat. 16AB / JK seats are located in the C-class Upper deck.
"Because of this change of flight model, this is a change of flight schedule (refer to ASM YS 252, September 13, 2018). The reservation system appears in the First Class Zone (Row 1-3) for seating. And passengers have already booked seats.
"TG971 / 11OCT has 39C 275Y passengers, with all seats in the First Class Zone (9 seats) reserved in advance. When all the pilots and crew arrived. The ground crew has informed us that Passive Crew Seat number is 16AB / JK (2FC / 2FP). It appears that P.I.C. denied and confirmed that both Passive FCs are seated in First Class Zone. Will perform as requested. The station. Passengers are required to seat in First Class Zone for individual seats. But it has been totally rejected. Until XXX, the passenger number XXXXX and his wife decided to move the seat to 16AB. Later, the passenger stated that the passenger was XXXXX and his wife. And ask for a solution to prevent such problems again.
On the same day, on October 12, 2018, THAI filed a report requesting that the B747 / A380 Flight Deck Passive Crew be deployed to operate a 2-class concept.
"Due to the flight case. TG971 / 11OCT / ZRH-BKK 49C 325Y, B777-300ER Config. 42C 306Y, due to the B777 and B747 airplane changes, resulting in Passive Crew 2FC and 2FP. Please refer to the Flight Crew Standard Passage Crew's Seat for Passenger Crew and Passive Crew Summer 2018 which determines the 24AB / EF seat. 16AB / JK seats are located in the C-class Upper deck.
"Because of this change of flight model, this is a change of flight schedule (refer to ASM YS 252, September 13, 2018). The reservation system appears in the First Class Zone (Row 1-3) for seating. And passengers have already booked seats.
"TG971 / 11OCT has 39C 275Y passengers, with all seats in the First Class Zone (9 seats) reserved in advance. When all the pilots and crew arrived. The ground crew has informed us that Passive Crew Seat number is 16AB / JK (2FC / 2FP). It appears that P.I.C. denied and confirmed that both Passive FCs are seated in First Class Zone. Will perform as requested. The station. Passengers are required to seat in First Class Zone for individual seats. But it has been totally rejected. Until XXX, the passenger number XXXXX and his wife decided to move the seat to 16AB. Later, the passenger stated that the passenger was XXXXX and his wife. And ask for a solution to prevent such problems again.
Credit article: https://mgronline.com/onlinesection/.../9610000104381
Last edited by Thai-Kiwi; Oct 19, 2018 at 2:58 am
Oct 19, 2018, 7:17 am
#274
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And to the passengers who missed their connections in Zurich due to the arrogance of the TG employee(s), I hope you will pursue the compensation to which are entitled (and let us know).
Oct 19, 2018, 7:37 am
#275
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- guess most of the domestic transit passengers and those in transit to other destinations in Asia could catch their flight or rebooked on the next, as TG usually has more than one flight to each Destination
- EU regulated compensation starts from 3 hours delay
Oct 19, 2018, 11:06 am
#276
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Gotta laugh at Google translation (or whatever translating engine used) 
- Translating Thai sentences to English is almost always a disaster (not quite the other way around or for individual words)
Anyway, IMHO the captain of that flight definitely deserves to be severely reprimanded - fired even! What was he smoking to make that kind of demands where there is a clear guideline?
This case reminds me of the Korean "Nut" case a few years back!
- Translating Thai sentences to English is almost always a disaster (not quite the other way around or for individual words) Anyway, IMHO the captain of that flight definitely deserves to be severely reprimanded - fired even! What was he smoking to make that kind of demands where there is a clear guideline?
This case reminds me of the Korean "Nut" case a few years back!
Oct 19, 2018, 5:15 pm
#277
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I’m totally with the pilots on this one.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
Oct 19, 2018, 6:40 pm
#278
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I’m totally with the pilots on this one.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
If course in the end, we will probably not get an authoritative source on the rules. So we can only guess
Oct 19, 2018, 8:26 pm
#279
Join Date: Jul 2013
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I’m totally with the pilots on this one.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
those were the 777 pilots returning to BKK as a period of 4 days started with 747 flown on this route. It was clear from the beginning that they would return on the 747.
it would not have got such media attention and the passengers moved from F seats to J seats would not have complained if things had been sorted out BEFORE the flight I am sure if pilots had addressed this to Ground Control before the flight, changed had been made.
But it is completely irresponsible of the pilots to hold a plane full of passengers and the airport, which need back the gate hostage to blackmail their colleagues into the F seats. Those pilots should be FIRED!
Oct 19, 2018, 8:39 pm
#280
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you are DEAD wrong on this!
those were the 777 pilots returning to BKK as a period of 4 days started with 747 flown on this route. It was clear from the beginning that they would return on the 747.
it would not have got such media attention and the passengers moved from F seats to J seats would not have complained if things had been sorted out BEFORE the flight I am sure if pilots had addressed this to Ground Control before the flight, changed had been made.
But it is completely irresponsible of the pilots to hold a plane full of passengers and the airport, which need back the gate hostage to blackmail their colleagues into the F seats. Those pilots should be FIRED!
those were the 777 pilots returning to BKK as a period of 4 days started with 747 flown on this route. It was clear from the beginning that they would return on the 747.
it would not have got such media attention and the passengers moved from F seats to J seats would not have complained if things had been sorted out BEFORE the flight I am sure if pilots had addressed this to Ground Control before the flight, changed had been made.
But it is completely irresponsible of the pilots to hold a plane full of passengers and the airport, which need back the gate hostage to blackmail their colleagues into the F seats. Those pilots should be FIRED!
If they were dead-heading on a regular 3-class 747 or A380 they'd have full flat F seats. If they were on a 32class 77W they'd have full flat J seats. Here they had a 2-class 747 and someone mucked up not realising they're still flying around anciet angled lie flats.
I think fair enough that they should be entitled to full-flat F on the 747 in a two-class configuration.
I can't see what loss the passngers suffered here. Not pleasant for them, but F seating is not guaranteed.
Oct 19, 2018, 9:07 pm
#282
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland OR & Bangkok
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I’m totally with the pilots on this one.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
Ordinarily the dead-heading pilots would have received biz class on the 77W, which would have been full flat. This aircraft had angled seats in biz class, and the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat, as available in the F cabin.
Of course this should have been handled by airport control, but it wasn’t. The passengers deserve praise for taking a hit for the team and enabling the flight to depart, but they weren’t downgraded, just moved to the upper deck.
If pilots are entitled to the F cabin anyway, and in this case there was an F cabin, even if sold as J, they should get it if entitled by their contract. Especially if they had onward duty.
If this aircraft was equipped with full flat beds in J, my opinion would be different. If the passengers had paid F and were moved they would have been entitled to substantial EU compensation... but they weren’t downgraded. They were just lucky to score the seats. They lost nothing.
Unfortunate, but I’m with the pilots.
"the captain determined the two senior dead-heading pilots needed full flat" <- that statement right there is already against written guidelines (if you can read Thai). Full flat vs Angle flat? That's Bullocks!
Yes, the pilots are entitled to F seats, but not at the expense of revenue pax, and to correct you, it is NOT in their contract! True, those two "got lucky" but the action of the captain taking the whole flight hostage is uncalled for. Remember the KE nut case? Again, if you can read Thai, the procedure for 747 - seats 24AB/EF are reserved.
you are DEAD wrong on this!
those were the 777 pilots returning to BKK as a period of 4 days started with 747 flown on this route. It was clear from the beginning that they would return on the 747.
it would not have got such media attention and the passengers moved from F seats to J seats would not have complained if things had been sorted out BEFORE the flight I am sure if pilots had addressed this to Ground Control before the flight, changed had been made.
But it is completely irresponsible of the pilots to hold a plane full of passengers and the airport, which need back the gate hostage to blackmail their colleagues into the F seats. Those pilots should be FIRED!
those were the 777 pilots returning to BKK as a period of 4 days started with 747 flown on this route. It was clear from the beginning that they would return on the 747.
it would not have got such media attention and the passengers moved from F seats to J seats would not have complained if things had been sorted out BEFORE the flight I am sure if pilots had addressed this to Ground Control before the flight, changed had been made.
But it is completely irresponsible of the pilots to hold a plane full of passengers and the airport, which need back the gate hostage to blackmail their colleagues into the F seats. Those pilots should be FIRED!
Oct 19, 2018, 9:19 pm
#283
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland OR & Bangkok
Programs: United GS, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 662
Can't see what the loss is? It is not easy to put a $$$ figure on good will and reputation of the airline. What if the captain is forced to resign? There's a big cost associated with that.
Oct 19, 2018, 9:25 pm
#284
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Portland OR & Bangkok
Programs: United GS, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 662
The quote in post 272 says that the 747 seating for deadheading crew is upper deck seats. Whether this is true or not is of course difficult to know. The dead heading crew would be the crew meant to fly the 77W home, so their roster would almost certainly not have had a flight right after arrival in Bangkok. So far I would say that the indications are flight crew being prima donnas, at the expense of a plane load of passengers
If course in the end, we will probably not get an authoritative source on the rules. So we can only guess
If course in the end, we will probably not get an authoritative source on the rules. So we can only guess
Oct 19, 2018, 9:40 pm
#285
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: MP
Posts: 224
So the PIC of the flight has made a personal facebook post explaining the situation
https://www.facebook.com/chongsiri/posts/1899101286847466
http://news1live.com/detail.aspx?NewsID=9610000104848
Note that it is in Thai though. You can google translate it if you want, but I'm a native, so here's my summary for you guys.
He claims that KK has complimentary upgraded pax from J to F which is different from PIC manual. So he tried to fix this pre boarding. KK insisted that pax should take priority and refuse to demote pax. PIC refuse to take off. KK refuse to change. Then 2 hours passed and things happened the way it did.
https://www.facebook.com/chongsiri/posts/1899101286847466
http://news1live.com/detail.aspx?NewsID=9610000104848
Note that it is in Thai though. You can google translate it if you want, but I'm a native, so here's my summary for you guys.
He claims that KK has complimentary upgraded pax from J to F which is different from PIC manual. So he tried to fix this pre boarding. KK insisted that pax should take priority and refuse to demote pax. PIC refuse to take off. KK refuse to change. Then 2 hours passed and things happened the way it did.
Last edited by pon18n; Oct 19, 2018 at 9:45 pm