View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Dec 23, 2014, 7:35 pm
#346
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
I don't use the "Ignore" FT feature; and I, to the best of my mind, never have used that FT feature.
I have read all of the FT CD's posts in this thread -- definitely not all were reviewed in the most timely manner possible -- but then again timely omniscience is certainly not a human feature.
Perhaps this is a sign of a language-choice issue, but some sort of trial was already a "done deal" in the opinion of at least two FTers here. Fortunately, none of us here have a monopoly on what that means or doesn't mean, so opinions on whether or not that is the right way to characterize what has happened so far is going to vary. Even after having repeatedly re-read all this thread's posts made in the past week, opinions about this -- the language choice -- will vary.
I wouldn't be surprised if another trial re-starts in some way or another -- just stating what would not surprise me.
Dec 23, 2014, 9:55 pm
#347
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
The definitive answers to how the trial came about are situated in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...-profiles.html.
The "like" or other indicator of presumed value is not a "done deal" at all. IB tech wanted to see how the feature built into vB might work here, and they were unprepared for the visibility in profiles.
The "like" or other indicator of presumed value is not a "done deal" at all. IB tech wanted to see how the feature built into vB might work here, and they were unprepared for the visibility in profiles.
Dec 23, 2014, 10:20 pm
#348
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,140
I find these types of "voting buttons" to be absolutely useless. They would only serve to clutter up pages that are already way too cluttered. The first thing I would do would be to write a GreaseMonkey script to hide them.
Dec 23, 2014, 11:06 pm
#349
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
^ Please vote no in the poll if you haven't done so already and urge your friends to do the same
Dec 24, 2014, 3:46 am
#351
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Seniors Bus Pass
Posts: 5,531
When I voted against it, it seemed that just over 100 people had voted "for". Considering the size of the membership, it is not exactly a groundswell of opinion!
Dec 24, 2014, 3:55 am
#352
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Please do not put words into my mouth. I didn't agree it was necessary to thank the speaker for the info (fwiw - I thought the speaker was regurgitating a bunch of stuff, but hey he got paid $10,000 to regurgitate. Also I was not the individual who thanked him). I provided the story of someone wanting to be thanked for thanking someone as an example opposite of what you & jackal seem to think I was saying & as back-up of how the like thing could run amok.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I come from a place where thanking is considered appropriate when receiving helpful advice.
Regardless, I don't think the "thanks" or "like" or "helpful" button should be there just for polite manners.
Dec 24, 2014, 8:12 am
#353
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,147
In its latest iteration, the British Army Rumour Service (arrse.co.uk) introduced a set of buttons visible for each post. Categories include: Like; Dislike; Funny; Informative; Bull....: Old [news/information].
That may be a bit excessive, and as I rarely go there these days I'm not quite sure how well its working. But certainly the option of "Helpful" and "Like" seem a possible benefit when trawling through long/complex Threads.
At the very least it might reduce the " ^ +1 " posts, which then often lead to a side-discussion or similar " ^ " posts.
That may be a bit excessive, and as I rarely go there these days I'm not quite sure how well its working. But certainly the option of "Helpful" and "Like" seem a possible benefit when trawling through long/complex Threads.
At the very least it might reduce the " ^ +1 " posts, which then often lead to a side-discussion or similar " ^ " posts.
Dec 24, 2014, 10:58 am
#354
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
No; but every bit of information helps towards my decision on how to vote — should a vote amongst members of TalkBoard become a reality...
Dec 25, 2014, 8:21 pm
#355
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
I would probably settle for two acknowledgement buttons.
1. Like
2. Helpful
Like to be used to highlight points of view which argue for alternative presentations (including humorous insights to pedantic presentations)
Helpful to support comments which actually clarify or present new opportunities to understand airline policies (to the benefit of the FFer population)
Happy wandering
Fred
1. Like
2. Helpful
Like to be used to highlight points of view which argue for alternative presentations (including humorous insights to pedantic presentations)
Helpful to support comments which actually clarify or present new opportunities to understand airline policies (to the benefit of the FFer population)
Happy wandering
Fred
Dec 26, 2014, 9:42 am
#356
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: PDX
Programs: TSA Refusenik charter member
Posts: 15,978
Dec 26, 2014, 12:46 pm
#357
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: AA LT G (1MM);DL G, UA GM
Posts: 2,028
My first reaction on hearing of this was, "What is this, Facebook?" It seems to me that FT is about conversations, not collecting "likes". If a posting is meaningful it will inspire further postings.
Also, even if IB claims that they would get no benefit from this feature, anything that increases the number of clicks and page views DOES enhance their ad revenue.
Also, even if IB claims that they would get no benefit from this feature, anything that increases the number of clicks and page views DOES enhance their ad revenue.
Dec 26, 2014, 8:55 pm
#358
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
I had originally voted "yes" in the poll, on the basis that the concept seemed harmless and if folks wanted it, why not. But if I had to do it over, I'd vote "no" for two reasons. One, the "opposition" arguments have swayed me more, and two, having now lost the old FT app when I switched to a new android phone, I'd prefer IB's time and resources be spent on that rather than a frivolous new feature.
Dec 27, 2014, 4:11 am
#359
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
+1,000 on that.
I had originally voted "yes" in the poll, on the basis that the concept seemed harmless and if folks wanted it, why not. But if I had to do it over, I'd vote "no" for two reasons. One, the "opposition" arguments have swayed me more, and two, having now lost the old FT app when I switched to a new android phone, I'd prefer IB's time and resources be spent on that rather than a frivolous new feature.
I had originally voted "yes" in the poll, on the basis that the concept seemed harmless and if folks wanted it, why not. But if I had to do it over, I'd vote "no" for two reasons. One, the "opposition" arguments have swayed me more, and two, having now lost the old FT app when I switched to a new android phone, I'd prefer IB's time and resources be spent on that rather than a frivolous new feature.
Can this feature -- or poll voting -- be set up so that all members may know who is voting and how they voted/liked? If so, how easily can that be done?
The previous rating/voting/like system on FT was less "anonymous" than some had expected it to be.
Dec 27, 2014, 5:22 am
#360
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,147
This feature is already a done deal and pretty much ready to go.
Can this feature -- or poll voting -- be set up so that all members may know who is voting and how they voted/liked? If so, how easily can that be done?
The previous rating/voting/like system on FT was less "anonymous" than some had expected it to be.
Can this feature -- or poll voting -- be set up so that all members may know who is voting and how they voted/liked? If so, how easily can that be done?
The previous rating/voting/like system on FT was less "anonymous" than some had expected it to be.
I prefer the confidentiality of the ballot box, frankly. How I chose to vote [or indeed not] should not be deemed public information.