View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Dec 27, 2014, 4:46 pm
#376
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Quite interesting how much the poll voting suddenly swung today from one category to another. The product of a lobbying effort having come to fruition or of more people being in the office today and a related shift in voting patterns? Quite the large swing in one fell swoop.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...our-forum.html
Dec 27, 2014, 4:48 pm
#377
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Functionally, yes. In vB, it looks like this on the 'create poll' page (I just set up a test poll on our forum to confirm):
........
Generally, though, polls I've participated in are always anonymous and that's how we set them up on the forums I moderate, unless for some reason management requests other. The site owner or the development team (anyone with root access to the database) can read the raw results if they so choose, regardless.
........
Generally, though, polls I've participated in are always anonymous and that's how we set them up on the forums I moderate, unless for some reason management requests other. The site owner or the development team (anyone with root access to the database) can read the raw results if they so choose, regardless.
So who voted is ultimately not really anonymous and it is just "secret" to the extent that anyone with control over root access to the database wishes it to be? Same goes for how such persons voted? Seems like déjŕ vu.
Dec 27, 2014, 4:56 pm
#378
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I think this thread in the BA forum has increased traffic:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...our-forum.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...our-forum.html
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall hand out a bunch of Christmas hams and turkeys on Boxing Day, as a reward for support? But that was yesterday.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 27, 2014 at 5:01 pm
Dec 27, 2014, 5:06 pm
#379
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
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Posts: 10,187
That thread, which I've been following, has been around for days, and yet only today the voting pattern changed in a very lop-sided way.
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall hand out a bunch of Christmas hams and turkeys on Boxing Day, as a reward for support? But that was yesterday.
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall hand out a bunch of Christmas hams and turkeys on Boxing Day, as a reward for support? But that was yesterday.
I noticed the jump as well today. Perhaps others are spending more time on FT again or those who feel passionately about this are PM'ing others to cast their poll vote?
Dec 27, 2014, 5:19 pm
#380
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There was a lobbying effort -- or two or three -- which perhaps could have come to fruition today after the Hannukah and Christmas holiday periods ended. It's just the votes are rather extremely different and this period of time isn't usually amongst the most active FT periods . Either way, given how cliquish this place is, can't say I'm surprised that such a huge change in voting pattern took place within this day.
Dec 27, 2014, 5:34 pm
#381
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Vote going how you wish it to? "Democracy in action! ^"
Vote turns the other way? "Must be rigged!!
"
Vote turns the other way? "Must be rigged!!
"
Dec 27, 2014, 6:12 pm
#383
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Not clicking on something is not the point.
I do not want to see "x has liked this post" text boxes randomly through threads.
I do not want to see anything in messages or profiles saying "you have x likes".
If such a unnecessary farce is added to FT, I want the option to not have to see it anywhere.
I do not want to see "x has liked this post" text boxes randomly through threads.
I do not want to see anything in messages or profiles saying "you have x likes".
If such a unnecessary farce is added to FT, I want the option to not have to see it anywhere.
Dec 27, 2014, 6:13 pm
#384
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How is that "Like/helpful" thing working out for Milepoint.com?
Not necessarily. Lobbying efforts (on, off or cycled) -- when it comes to popularity contests -- come with changed results too.
Sometimes a rigged vote is a "vote going how you wish it to"; and sometimes a rigged vote is not.
Sometimes a vote defeat is tactically or strategically desirable -- rigged vote or not.
Sometimes a rigged vote is a "vote going how you wish it to"; and sometimes a rigged vote is not.
Sometimes a vote defeat is tactically or strategically desirable -- rigged vote or not.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm
Dec 27, 2014, 7:21 pm
#385
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
Well, “likes” contribute towards elite level status over at Milepoint, where you get gifts with each level — such as no advertising to interfere with your experience once you reach Gold elite level status — whereas there is no elite level status here at FlyerTalk.
In other words: except for the possibility of cliquish behavior, there is no incentive to give or receive “likes” on FlyerTalk other than as a commentary on content posted.
As for any lobbying efforts, I know nothing about them. Speaking for myself, the poll is but one factor to contribute to my decision if and when there is a vote to be cast by me on whether or not FlyerTalk should have a “like” function; and the comments — which I am reading — are another factor...You know your New York City politics from the nineteenth century...
In other words: except for the possibility of cliquish behavior, there is no incentive to give or receive “likes” on FlyerTalk other than as a commentary on content posted.
As for any lobbying efforts, I know nothing about them. Speaking for myself, the poll is but one factor to contribute to my decision if and when there is a vote to be cast by me on whether or not FlyerTalk should have a “like” function; and the comments — which I am reading — are another factor...You know your New York City politics from the nineteenth century...
Dec 27, 2014, 7:46 pm
#386
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,061
That thread, which I've been following, has been around for days, and yet only today the voting pattern changed in a very lop-sided way.
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall hand out a bunch of Christmas hams and turkeys on Boxing Day, as a reward for support? But that was yesterday.
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall hand out a bunch of Christmas hams and turkeys on Boxing Day, as a reward for support? But that was yesterday.
Dec 27, 2014, 11:47 pm
#387
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Quite interesting how much the poll voting suddenly swung today from one category to another. The product of a lobbying effort having come to fruition or of more people being in the office today and a related shift in voting patterns? Quite the large swing in one fell swoop.
Dec 28, 2014, 3:13 am
#388
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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That thread, which I've been following, has been around for days, and yet only today the voting pattern changed in a very lop-sided way.
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
Going from a c. 3-10% difference over many days and then having a 75+% difference in the opposite direction for votes within the past 24 hours, on a rather large number of votes cast today? That thread explains some increased traffic, but the very dramatic voting shift? Maybe weekend voters are different than holiday voters, and this is the post-holiday hangover effect?
BTW, I have not received any lobbying PMs. A one of the more vocal [and occasionally constructive] BA denizens, I would have thought I would have been a prime target. Just saying.
Dec 28, 2014, 4:32 am
#389
Moderator, Finnair
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Well, “likes” contribute towards elite level status over at Milepoint, where you get gifts with each level — such as no advertising to interfere with your experience once you reach Gold elite level status — whereas there is no elite level status here at FlyerTalk.
In other words: except for the possibility of cliquish behavior, there is no incentive to give or receive “likes” on FlyerTalk other than as a commentary on content posted.
...
In other words: except for the possibility of cliquish behavior, there is no incentive to give or receive “likes” on FlyerTalk other than as a commentary on content posted.
...
I asked earlier in this thread about the plan what to do with the data collected, ie would 'likes'/'helpful' be used for anything later on. Like top lists, status and so on, but I didn't really get an answer.
Last edited by intuition; Dec 28, 2014 at 4:42 am
Dec 28, 2014, 4:47 am
#390
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As a BA Board resident, and daily reader of same, it did seem to me that things were a little quieter than usual over the last few days. Was there something else going on that I missed?
BTW, I have not received any lobbying PMs. A one of the more vocal [and occasionally constructive] BA denizens, I would have thought I would have been a prime target. Just saying.
BTW, I have not received any lobbying PMs. A one of the more vocal [and occasionally constructive] BA denizens, I would have thought I would have been a prime target. Just saying.
Time and resources spent on other things to drive the vote would probably be better off invested on others, unless it was to try to convince us to get others whom we know are likely or certainly going to vote in the "preferred" way -- even if those others are lurkers-turned-new-members-turned-voters or double digit or less post count voters -- to vote. It's an open, "secret" vote for all who register regardless of FT member registration date, right?Just saying.