View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the 
(lower right wiki corner)
Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Dec 19, 2014, 2:50 pm
#271
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,064
I don't believe it has any real value here.
This board is for questions and answers as well as information exchange not who likes who, which IMO, is how it will quickly evolve. If you want to be liked, use FB or become a TWIT. If you want to communicate information, use FT.
Additionally, if you have a "like" you should have a "dislike" as a counterbalance. While you're at it, how about an IBTL button.
I dislike a lot of the misinformation that's posted and would welcome a way to indicate it with a simple button, equivalent to a -1. Maybe you could label it BS.
You can accomplish the same thing with the use of a -1 in addition to the +1. Also, will the "like" or "dislike" count as a post? If not, the post count padders won't use it.
I probably got a little carried away but that's FT. If you don't like what I wrote, don't "like" it!
This board is for questions and answers as well as information exchange not who likes who, which IMO, is how it will quickly evolve. If you want to be liked, use FB or become a TWIT. If you want to communicate information, use FT.
Additionally, if you have a "like" you should have a "dislike" as a counterbalance. While you're at it, how about an IBTL button.
I dislike a lot of the misinformation that's posted and would welcome a way to indicate it with a simple button, equivalent to a -1. Maybe you could label it BS.
You can accomplish the same thing with the use of a -1 in addition to the +1. Also, will the "like" or "dislike" count as a post? If not, the post count padders won't use it.
I probably got a little carried away but that's FT. If you don't like what I wrote, don't "like" it!
Or at least a, "Making popcorn" button. The trial underway is installing a scoring/rating of FTers rather than just a rating of any given post. That may well be the intention of this proposal and trial, no less so when given the software has by default done what it is done to do: include the member's rating/reputation scores in the member profiles.
This seems set to be just what I said it would be: an opportunity for popularity contests and cliques to play games. Could be fun for a while but it's not going to add to my idea of an improved user experience but perhaps for its fleeting entertainment value and to see who is more popular than whom on FT.
This seems set to be just what I said it would be: an opportunity for popularity contests and cliques to play games. Could be fun for a while but it's not going to add to my idea of an improved user experience but perhaps for its fleeting entertainment value and to see who is more popular than whom on FT.
Dec 19, 2014, 2:52 pm
#272
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
I just noticed in my private messages that I had an unread message so I went to see what it was and there were not any unread messages. So as I tried to figure it out, I drilled down and saw a thing for Likes
What is a like on FT?
Now I notice that I have one, but I cannot see where its from, is there a way to do that?
What is a like on FT?
Now I notice that I have one, but I cannot see where its from, is there a way to do that?
a thought >
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Dec 19, 2014 at 4:06 pm
Dec 19, 2014, 3:07 pm
#273
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
That's a good thought and an approach I would prefer to the current one proposed and underway in trial now. That said, I prefer no change on this matter of scoring FTers or posts. Is the software of this place even currently able to do that which you suggest as an alternative? Would the software allow for that list of fans to be hidden? Who could choose to turn on and off the fan list visibility?
Dec 19, 2014, 3:14 pm
#274
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
That's a good thought and an approach I would prefer to the current one proposed and underway in trial now. That said, I prefer no change on this matter of scoring FTers or posts. Is the software of this place even currently able to do that which you suggest as an alternative? Would the software allow for that list of fans to be hidden? Who could choose to turn on and off the fan list visibility?
if it says something at the bottom of every post, perhaps its possible for it to only have that, and not the statistics/scoring
although i guess the number of whatever is kind of a score to the post
Dec 19, 2014, 3:19 pm
#275
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CHA, MAN;
Programs: Delta DM 1 MM; Hz PC
Posts: 11,169
I am against by the way.
I confess that I use the +1 too often.
kipper mentioned a popcorn button in jest. I do not want a popcorn button but no harm having a pocorn icon/smilie.
Dec 19, 2014, 3:22 pm
#276
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
I would like to see "Like" and "Dislike" buttons added to the OMNI area only - showing the handles of people who did so. If you're going to comment on something, you need to be visible.
No pressing need for it in other parts of FT.
No pressing need for it in other parts of FT.
Dec 19, 2014, 3:27 pm
#277
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,064
Dec 19, 2014, 3:31 pm
#278
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
One of the inevitable outcomes of moves like this is that it becomes a tool of cliquedom.
On some of the forums I see where this operates, it very clearly starts off well intentioned but inevitably becomes less a tool of post approval but more a took of poster approval and disapproval. It then also eventually becomes a tool of groups of people to mutually support each other when they attack other mutually disliked people or perceived enemies. All of us have experienced the distinct feeling that once you have disagreed with another poster, nothing you ever say in future will not prompt disagreement.
I understand why people think this is a progressive step but eventually it takes away more than it adds in my view and I believe will harm rather than improve FT.
On some of the forums I see where this operates, it very clearly starts off well intentioned but inevitably becomes less a tool of post approval but more a took of poster approval and disapproval. It then also eventually becomes a tool of groups of people to mutually support each other when they attack other mutually disliked people or perceived enemies. All of us have experienced the distinct feeling that once you have disagreed with another poster, nothing you ever say in future will not prompt disagreement.
I understand why people think this is a progressive step but eventually it takes away more than it adds in my view and I believe will harm rather than improve FT.
Dec 19, 2014, 3:37 pm
#279
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
Dec 19, 2014, 3:38 pm
#280
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR/SPG LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus
Posts: 31,010
IMHO, Omni is the worst possible place to implement this. If it goes anywhere, which I don't think we need, it should not be used in Omni.
Dec 19, 2014, 3:39 pm
#281
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,159
I have no interest in social media and don't really understand the concept of what a Like Feature is.
Surely if you agree with something a poster has written you note your approval in a written post.
It takes time to think about what you're writing and the views you're expressing.
And presumably if you're on FT you have the time to do that.
That's the joy of FT.It encourages good argument and the occasional polemic.
Leave Likes to the kids.
Surely if you agree with something a poster has written you note your approval in a written post.
It takes time to think about what you're writing and the views you're expressing.
And presumably if you're on FT you have the time to do that.
That's the joy of FT.It encourages good argument and the occasional polemic.
Leave Likes to the kids.
Dec 19, 2014, 3:46 pm
#282
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,064
Unfortunately, if it can't be restricted to only certain forums, then if it is rolled out, it'll be rolled out to OMNI too.
Dec 19, 2014, 4:02 pm
#283
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,626
Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't vote for such a rollout unless IB categorically refused to modify the software to allow per-forum enabling of reader feedback. I doubt I would vote for a sitewide rollout in any case, other than a limited duration trial so we could see just how bad the results are in OMNI/PR.
Dec 19, 2014, 4:04 pm
#284
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,064
Speaking only for myself, I wouldn't vote for such a rollout unless IB categorically refused to modify the software to allow per-forum enabling of reader feedback. I doubt I would vote for a sitewide rollout in any case, other than a limited duration trial so we could see just how bad the results are in OMNI/PR.
Dec 19, 2014, 4:08 pm
#285
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
nsx, are you saying that you know IB can currently modify the software to flip on this feature on a per-forum basis? It seems the info known about what can and can be done is only dripping out to the FT public, and that doesn't help inspire confidence that the users can make an informed decision when voting on whatever else is bundled in (or intended to be bundled in) with this proposed change.
If there is to be a meaningful trial period that goes beyond the current trial for "likes"/"helpful", then OMNI would be the best place to see the results.
If this "feature" is enabled for the rest of the FT forums, OMNI forums should be included too.
If this "feature" is enabled for the rest of the FT forums, OMNI forums should be included too.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 19, 2014 at 4:13 pm