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-   -   Motion Passed - Posts Count in All FT Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkboard-topics/1298928-motion-passed-posts-count-all-ft-forums.html)

kipper Jan 10, 2012 7:08 am


Originally Posted by Jenbel (Post 17784696)
Oh good grief, I thought we'd done away with the mystical PMs which only appear when someone is trying to justify their position and there is not enough support for it on the threads.

Have any of the TB members actually said this is the case, or are you just trying to bolster your position with supposition?

Perhaps TB members could answer this? However, IIRC, based on a prior thread in a different forum, at least one poster is banned/masked from this forum.

dchristiva Jan 10, 2012 7:57 am


Originally Posted by Steph3n (Post 17777008)
I'd prefer post counts be hidden from all but mods, they are meaningless anyone that cares about them is caring about the wrong thing, quantity and not quality.

This would be okay with me, too.

Though I still don't know why anyone cares about counting posts, period.

dchristiva Jan 10, 2012 8:00 am


Originally Posted by Mary2e (Post 17777562)
As I have said many times before, I cannot believe the venom displayed by some regarding Omni posts. For a bunch of intelligent people, no one appears to be able to reconcile the fact that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of OT posts have been made in contest threads as well as lounge threads. We won't even talk about some entire forums that are maginally travel related. If anyone is really interested, I can send you to M&P threads where a few posters have over 20k (each) in posts - and they post virtually nowhere else on FT.

Yet, it's the official OT area that gets all the venom.

For me, it's about consistency. Either treat all OT the same or don't. Let's not make 3 forums FT's redheaded stepchildren.

Or, don't count anyones posts.

As for post padding counting games (and even the contests) - I'm also all for deleting all that currently exist and also prevent any others from being started.

Except that ship sailed when OMNI posts stopped counting towards post count. Folks who have been members long enough have been playing under 2 sets of rules. "Consistency" can never happen now.

RichMSN Jan 10, 2012 8:00 am


Originally Posted by kipper (Post 17784819)
Perhaps TB members could answer this? However, IIRC, based on a prior thread in a different forum, at least one poster is banned/masked from this forum.

I can only speak of two FTers -- one cannot post here by his own choice (he asked to be masked from TB Topics) and one cannot post here because he was masked from the forum. I've received PMs from both.

dchristiva Jan 10, 2012 8:01 am


Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 17777672)
You're also forgetting the hundreds of thousands of posts (this is a swag on my part -- it could be fewer, it could be more) that were counted in OMNI until Randy threw the switch in the middle of the night one night and they, all of a sudden, didn't count any more.

What's sad is some of the people who argue against this the hardest have quite a few posts in OMNI from those days that added to their post count.

Exactly.

amanuensis Jan 10, 2012 8:03 am

My post count is higher than it should be because I posted in OMNI back when the posts counted. I definitely read and learn from threads in the forums that are relevant to the type of travel that I do, but I still post more in OMNI (well, actually OMNI PR) than I do elsewhere.

I thought Randy made the right decision to not have OMNI posts count. I believe that the Talk Board should continue that policy.

I thought Randy made the wrong decision in counting contest posts.

FWIW, I also think the wrong decision was made in splitting politics and religion from the rest of OMNI.

goalie Jan 10, 2012 8:07 am


Originally Posted by matthandy (Post 17783216)
TB members shouldn't be included. This is about the community that you guys are supposed to represent. The numbers should reflect the community, not the representatives.

Wow, I'm really struggling with the fact that you clearly have no interest in listening to the community that you are supposed to represent!

I'm shocked that you don't see that as an issue, or in fact, any of the TB members, or even comment on it.

TalkBoard members are elected to serve all members of FT and that includes themselves as TalkBoard members, you, Moderators and the Community Director as we are all members of Flyertalk and just like you, all have the same issues/concerns/tips 'n tricks that you do and share them as would any other member.


Originally Posted by matthandy (Post 17783420)

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 17783270)
I am an equal member to you and the rest of the community. TB members (and moderators, so I'm told) are members first and foremost.

.....I strongly disagree, since you already have the power to vote. Ordinary, non-voting members do not, the only thing we can do is express an opinion.....

Then run for TalkBoard in the next election


Originally Posted by Jenbel (Post 17784339)

Originally Posted by RichMSN
I am an equal member to you and the rest of the community. TB members (and moderators, so I'm told) are members first and foremost. Our opinions should be counted in a poll like this right alongside yours. Still, I don't think representative government involves poll-taking on every issue. Candidates run, are elected based on stands they take during a campaign, and then vote their conscience.

I disagree profoundly. You are not an equal member as ultimately only you get to decide on this motion. I'm sure it makes things more comfortable for you if you can manipulate the figures to fit your view of what you would like to happen

And you as a Moderator are an equal member? I think not.


Originally Posted by Jenbel (Post 17784321)

Originally Posted by Mary2e
They did discuss it. As part of their platforms and in their responses to questions.

Except they brushed it under the carpet, and refused to accept it even as a genuine concern. And then made promises they then admitted they couldn't keep about what would happen 'if' the games became a problem.

Heads buried in sand while they mess with a forum. In this way you are correct - if TB were intent on experimenting this way on a M&P forum folks would be up in arms. But this is only OMNI :(

Then run for TalkBoard in the next election


Originally Posted by kipper (Post 17784667)
I think some people are making an assumption that those who have an opinion on this motion have all posted in this thread. However, perhaps some people do not feel comfortable posting in this thread, but have otherwise expressed their opinions to TalkBoard members via PM. Perhaps others are masked from seeing this forum, and as such, are unable to voice an opinion on this thread. Just because there is a discussion here does not mean that this is the only place where opinions to TalkBoard members are expressed concerning this motion.

Well said ^

kipper Jan 10, 2012 8:32 am


Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 17785151)
I can only speak of two FTers -- one cannot post here by his own choice (he asked to be masked from TB Topics) and one cannot post here because he was masked from the forum. I've received PMs from both.

Thanks! Jenbel, per the post above, yes, people who have not posted on this thread have in fact sent PM's to at least one TalkBoard member.

RichMSN Jan 10, 2012 8:40 am


Originally Posted by kipper (Post 17785345)
Thanks! Jenbel, per the post above, yes, people who have not posted on this thread have in fact sent PM's to at least one TalkBoard member.

I'm also not going to pretend it's a massive number nor will I reveal the members or provide the PMs (both of which would violate the TOS) -- I was just answering the question.

Jenbel Jan 10, 2012 8:49 am


And you as a Moderator are an equal member? I think not.
I am when it comes to the question 'should OMNI posts count'. However, some TB members seem to think they get a double say in the matter. When trying to get themselves included in a list of members who have expressed views on the matter.. when they have access to the private forums and get to vote, it seems like they are trying to ram their points of view down our throats, instead of listening to us.

Any TB member who is concerned about whether his POV is being suitably recognised by the members is too concerned about his own voice, and not enough concerned about listening IMHO.

Jenbel Jan 10, 2012 8:58 am


Originally Posted by kipper (Post 17785345)
Thanks! Jenbel, per the post above, yes, people who have not posted on this thread have in fact sent PM's to at least one TalkBoard member.

Only two though.

Forgive me for being cynical, but at least one former TB/FT member always used to trot out 'I've had lots of PMs supporting my position' whenever she found herself on the least popular side as a way of trying to justify she was listening to members.

The appearance of TB members receiving PMs to justify a position is now taken by me that they know they are losing the argument, and their position needs to be bolstered by anonymous, but always supportive and ultimately (IMHO given past experience) probably fictitious PMs.

In this case, RichMSN has provided enough detail for me to believe him. Generic claims about PMs received (which are surprisingly, always supportive! and always from the side which appears to have fewer proponents) - I simply don't. While I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, experience is also a great teacher.

kokonutz Jan 10, 2012 8:59 am


Originally Posted by Jenbel (Post 17785449)
I am when it comes to the question 'should OMNI posts count'. However, some TB members seem to think they get a double say in the matter. When trying to get themselves included in a list of members who have expressed views on the matter.. when they have access to the private forums and get to vote, it seems like they are trying to ram their points of view down our throats, instead of listening to us.

Any TB member who is concerned about whether his POV is being suitably recognised by the members is too concerned about his own voice, and not enough concerned about listening IMHO.

I agree with you that TB members are different from regular posters.

Just like moderators are different from regular posters.

Having a specific responsibility to FT creates a unique perspective in the way we look at and experience FT. IMHO, there is no way around that reality. That's why I supported TB members taking a year off every 4 years, to go experience FT as just a poster and not as a TB member. It's why I think moderators ought to take a leave of absence from those duties when they serve on the TB, so that their focus is purely on TB and not clouded by their perspective as a moderator. It's why I think moderators should take time off from moderating from time to time.

So I don't need my opinion tallied regarding this issue.

Especially since I was quite explicit when running for the TB that this issue would be a priority for me and that I thought the status quo is, and I quote "stupid, stupid, stupid."

My mind is open to many, many issues regarding FT. This is not one of them.

kokonutz Jan 10, 2012 9:03 am


Originally Posted by Jenbel (Post 17785496)
Only two though.

Forgive me for being cynical, but at least one former TB/FT member always used to trot out 'I've had lots of PMs supporting my position' whenever she found herself on the least popular side as a way of trying to justify she was listening to members.

The appearance of TB members receiving PMs to justify a position is now taken by me that they know they are losing the argument, and their position needs to be bolstered by anonymous, but always supportive and ultimately (IMHO given past experience) probably fictitious PMs.

In this case, RichMSN has provided enough detail for me to believe him. Generic claims about PMs received (which are surprisingly, always supportive! and always from the side which appears to have fewer proponents) - I simply don't. While I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, experience is also a great teacher.

I got a PM from a poster telling me I should resign from the TB because I never do what's in the best interests of the community, but instead pander to the populist positions.

So no, they are not always supportive! :)

(unless, of course, you want to accuse me of making that up...) :eek:

RichMSN Jan 10, 2012 9:12 am


Originally Posted by kokonutz (Post 17785537)
I got a PM from a poster telling me I should resign from the TB because I never do what's in the best interests of the community, but instead pander to the populist positions.

So no, they are not always supportive! :)

(unless, of course, you want to accuse me of making that up...) :eek:

Darn. You *always* get the fun PMs. Can that person send that one to me, too?

Your post was far more succinct than mine. I'm very open about some topics -- the Seattle forum, for example, where I originally thought it was a great idea and now I'm wondering if there'd be too much fragmentation if we break up the West forum even more.

This one, not so much. This is one of the main reasons I ran, because I thought this particular topic was handled very badly by previous TBs and by the previous host of FT.

lin821 Jan 10, 2012 9:23 am


Originally Posted by bhatnasx (Post 17782373)
Ok - so I've attempted to tally up the opinions as best I could based on who has posted in this thread - correct me if I'm wrong <snip>

POSTED IN THREAD, BUT NO CLEAR OPINION STATED (at least not crystal clear to me, IMHO) - 13 MEMBERS
Prospero
Canarsie
lin821
...

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you. I personally don't like repeating myself and/or singing the old tunes over and over again, especially when the discussion of counting OMNI has been taking the (wrong) angles over the years.

If you don't mind updating your tally, I am and have always been not counting OMNI.


Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 17780866)
I see this motion as an relatively quick up/down and then I plan on not talking about post counts again this year.

(bolding mine)

Promise?


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